DotA 2 announces Free-to-Play with all heroes and gameplay elements unlocked!

[Lancefighter]

TI2, and other related dota tournaments, have been taking up a lot of my time recently actually.. I think the spectator client is amazing, and everyone should try it.

I also think riot needs to step up their game.. a lot.

[Wingflier]

There's so much wonderful content to go through, it's almost overwhelming.  I love how each game is rated like a youtube video so you know which ones to watch if you're interested.

For anyone who wants to witness the power of the ganking lineup in this game, you should see this game:

Na'vi picks two incredibly powerful gankers - Pudge, whose hook is basically 3 times the range of Blitzcrank's, and Wisp, who can teleport an ally anywhere on the map and back almost at will.

http://www.dota2.com/international/game/173

If you have the client you can watch it in there by downloading the replay.

[Lancefighter]

Pudge, whose hook is basically 3 times the range of Blitzcrank's

*ahem* 950 range rocket grab compared to 1300 meat hook?

Its more that pudge has greater followup (rot dps/slow + dismember dmg/suppress*) compared to beep boop knockup and .5s silence, and that dota heros gain less hp per level (by an actual factor of three, believe it or not.. ok almost), and how vision mechanics work..

Its a lot of minor things that add up to a greater difference really.

[Wingflier]

*ahem* 950 range rocket grab compared to 1300 meat hook?

Well you can't really use the in-game measurements because I don't really think they're relative.

But look at these 2 screenshots:




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Blitzcrank's pull takes up 1/3rd to 1/2 of the screen, Pudge's hook goes completely off the screen.  The hook range is 2-3 times longer than Blitz's easily.

[Hearteater]

*ahem* 950 range rocket grab compared to 1300 meat hook?

You can't compare unit distances between the two games, as they are very arbitrary values.  This also applies to movement numbers.  Heck, it applies to all stats actually.

[Lancefighter]

I can compare movement speed. The average movespeed in dota is pretty close to 300, where the average in league is closer to 315.

I mean if we wanted to compare other things (vision range? Map size? Collision size of units themselves?) we could make those comparisons.

I meant to write something about average ranges in dota compared to league, but I removed it as i felt it wasnt important. So..

In dota, melee range is 128. In league, its 125. Exceptions are heros like doombringer, and I think xin.

In dota, drow has 625 range. In league, ashe has 600. Ill grant you maybe 50% greater range.. but silly comparisons like "it takes up x% of screen) is kinda silly. I could post a picture all zoomed in saying blitz's hook clearly goes offscreen.. but it simply wouldnt be relevant.

On the other hand, comparative movespeed is relevant. Comparative ranges is relevant. Both of these are honestly fairly similar:
It takes ABOUT 3 seconds for the average league champion to traverse the distance blitz can hook.
It takes ABOUT 4 seconds for the average dota hero to traverse the distance pudge can hook.

THAT is the core of the comparison I want to make, and possibly the most relevant one when you compare the raw numbers; And most importantly, I am comparing dota to dota, and league to league.

That isnt to say I wouldnt agree that the map is designed differently that 1300 units in dota means a lot more - if you look at mid, you can pull someone within their tower range well into your tower range, across highground.

In league, blitz's pull is at best a short-midrange initiation that often is honestly nullified by flash (flash having 400 range, and can go across any wall if done right, which is usually what blitz does - pull someone across a wall)

[Hearteater]

No you can't.  The best you can come up with is a conversion to apply to get the two numbers on the same scale.  But any conversion you pick is just one facet.  Comparing average move speed of DOTA and LoL might indicate a 1.05 multiplier to get from DOTA to LoL for ranges.  But the diagonal size on DOTA is 21542 while LoL is about 18000 fountain-to-fountain.  Adding extra to get to the corners of the LoL map puts us at best 20000.  And that's not even the only two metric you could use for converting move speeds.

I'm not saying you can't compare the two games, I'm just saying don't use their numbers directly to do it because it isn't going to work.

[Lancefighter]

I think that comparing solely time it takes to traverse the distance covered by each of the hooks within their respective environments assuming clear terrain should be a pretty sound comparison, comparatively.

Then again - I just chen ported pudge to fountain while hook was in the air. surprise! Fountain to Fountain hook! (insert "suddenly game is hard")

[keith.lamothe]

Fountain to Fountain hook! (insert "suddenly game is hard")

More like "insert enemy champion into chipper shredder"

[Wingflier]

The International 2 has officially started

http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/watch/

[keith.lamothe]

One thing I wonder about, after having watched a few matches over the previous days:

Would it actually change the tournament at all if they just took Naga Siren and Lycan out of the pool and skipped the first ban from each team?

If either one, somehow, were not banned, would any of the players actually pick them?  Have they spent time practicing them, even knowing that they just get banned every game?  Or is it not, actually, every game?

This isn't a criticism, just humor to me.  I remember the last International and the ban set was quite different.

[keith.lamothe]

Nvm, just saw an opening where Lycan was not in the first chunk of bans.  He was the first pick, sub-second wait

[Wingflier]

The heroes that are constantly picked and ban depend heavily on the current metagame.  Metagame shifts happen over time, and even if nothing major has changed about the game, the heroes that are typically picked and banned can vary wildly from year to year.

Right now Lycan and Syllabear seem to be a huge part of competitive play for whatever reason.  They are carries who are also decent junglers and pusher, as well as being significantly hard to kill.  Sometimes you see certain heroes become so feared that they are basically instantly banned.  Either people figure out how to counter that hero (often happens), or the hero itself gets nerfed.  Sometimes it's a combination of both.

[Lancefighter]

Lycan is one of the best pushers in the game atm, and is really difficult to shut down, from what I understand. In pubs hes also very very dominant..

Naga has a really strong ultimate.. Like.. her ultimate can basically do anything. It can initiate fights. It can counterinitiate fights. It can provide her with an almost guarenteed escape.. Additionally, she is generally considered to be the counter to lycan (she has a 5s snare that ignores magic immunity).

Theyre usually instantly picked if not banned, yeah.

Sylla bear.. its important to note that his bear does siege damage to turrets. That means he deals a TON of damage when attacking a turret, and INCREDIBLY safely (you often cant afford to spam spells and stuns on a bear, when it can just be recasted. Ill grant you a 3? minute cd..) Sylla bear often also goes radiance, allowing him to farm really quickly. Although, pb's aui prefers mjollnir, which gives him more of a teamfight presense with his entangle and chain lightning.

[Minotaar]

Greatly enjoying the tournament so far  Didn't think I was even going to watch it, but I got sick and took a peek and now I'm hooked. 
Really excited for today's games, yesterday v1lat, the Russian language caster in Seattle, literally jumped out of his pants during a certain final battle  Hoping for the same kind of great action today!