Author Topic: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]  (Read 4818 times)

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2016, 02:06:40 PM »
Its not like SW lore works anyway, they hid many, many dozens of books worth of background behind the curtain of 'Legends canon' instead of sorting out a feasible location for Ep. 7 and selectively un-cannoning things as needed.

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2016, 02:11:53 PM »
Quote
Considering how fast technology should be advancing, he would be obsolete five times over.
Ah, but you're comparing the SW Universe to our universe. It's a little different.

For example, in the Knights of the Old Republic game that literally takes place 4,000 years before the events of the first movie, pretty much everything is still the same. Lightsabers are around, all the technology and starships seem about the same. So if we're to take that at face value, that's 4k years with little to no technological advances at all. That game was hailed as a masterpiece.

Also, remember that the people in the Star Wars universe are not human. At least, they didn't come from our species, and thus may have significantly different characteristics.
yea pretty much unless out side lore talks about the way technology works as a whole then id just take it as ,if it isn't broke don't fix it, kind of approach it may be that they simply were never able to find a way to improve on the design in the republic era
how ever in the imperial era(which counts the era that seventh film is in since the emperors death seems to have done nothing to the state of it)its probably that the rebel forces never had the time to upgrade r2s model so I think its fair to say that since he clearly fulfilled his purpose admirably 
that they just decided to let it be.

ps the out of universe reason though is that in the original trilogy he became so iconic that they put him in the prequels and the new film for fan fare.
c.r

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,627
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2016, 02:13:06 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2016, 02:16:31 PM »
Its not like SW lore works anyway, they hid many, many dozens of books worth of background behind the curtain of 'Legends canon' instead of sorting out a feasible location for Ep. 7 and selectively un-cannoning things as needed.
yea there is a good deal that's unexplained in that film due to it being 1 a arbitrary trilogy and 2 a film if it was a book they could have gone away from what was happening to explain what is were and why or better yet before the story properly starts with a map of the universe and various notes on things one of the reasons I prefer books for world building personally
but there is a good deal that's unexplained not that I'm really in the mood to go into that.
c.r

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2016, 02:18:09 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
I absolutely love that they, excuse the expression, "shat" all over the novels and comics. Because those were a bleeding mess of retcons and power fantasies written for teenagers and sometimes BY teenagers. It was a disgrace to the brand and I'm very glad that they decided to ignore all that going forward. It may piss off a bunch of fans but I firmly believe it was for the better.

As for what you said about the lore, Wingflier, I agree in part. But you don't really watch Star Wars for science that holds together. It's a space opera, plain and simple. It's not meant to make sense. It's made to be epic and entertaining. (See parsec)
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2016, 02:19:14 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
fine by me if books are released to explain the things that don't make sense in that film even better id be more than happy to read those.
c.r

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2016, 02:21:11 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
Honestly, I think they could've just thrown out the yuuzhan vong (as much as I liked Traitor, the entire YV series was not especially good), added a clause for something like 'the movies may make their own direction instead of following the EU' and been fine.

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2016, 02:23:38 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
I absolutely love that they, excuse the expression, "shat" all over the novels and comics. Because those were a bleeding mess of retcons and power fantasies written for teenagers and sometimes BY teenagers. It was a disgrace to the brand and I'm very glad that they decided to ignore all that going forward. It may piss off a bunch of fans but I firmly believe it was for the better.

As for what you said about the lore, Wingflier, I agree in part. But you don't really watch Star Wars for science that holds together. It's a space opera, plain and simple. It's not meant to make sense. It's made to be epic and entertaining. (See parsec)
I understand (I've understand that for a good long while) but I at least like to over analyse universes like that.
c.r

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2016, 02:46:42 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
Honestly, I think they could've just thrown out the yuuzhan vong (as much as I liked Traitor, the entire YV series was not especially good), added a clause for something like 'the movies may make their own direction instead of following the EU' and been fine.

Didn't they though? I don't remember the YV being mentioned in the movie. Were they?
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2016, 03:18:44 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
I absolutely love that they, excuse the expression, "shat" all over the novels and comics. Because those were a bleeding mess of retcons and power fantasies written for teenagers and sometimes BY teenagers. It was a disgrace to the brand and I'm very glad that they decided to ignore all that going forward. It may piss off a bunch of fans but I firmly believe it was for the better.

As for what you said about the lore, Wingflier, I agree in part. But you don't really watch Star Wars for science that holds together. It's a space opera, plain and simple. It's not meant to make sense. It's made to be epic and entertaining. (See parsec)
I agree with this. The idea that they would go through EVERY SINGLE LINE of hundreds of books, cartoons, and other 3rd person Star Wars lore just to make it all fit is... Quite frankly ridiculous. And anybody who expected that a bit moronic. Hell, George Lucas couldn't even make his prequels fit in with the canon of the originals. There were so many things that blatantly did not fit into the story. Like how Leia says she remembered her mother from when she was young but in the prequels Padme died in childbirth *facepalm*. Plenty of things like that, and George Lucas WROTE the original scripts. So just imagine trying to do that with all the 3rd party canon...

There's also the added fact that 95% or more of all Star Wars fans haven't even read any of the other canon. So fitting that into the new movie would probably turn out as disastrous as expecting the audience of the new Warcraft film to know the backstory of the past 1,000 years of Azeroth, and the film critics scratching their heads thinking, "What the heck is going on here?" Disaster.
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline Cyborg

  • Master Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,955
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2016, 07:52:13 PM »
The only character from the old canon who I wouldn't mind seeing in the movies would be Thrawn.
Kahuna strategy guide:
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13369.0.html

Suggestions, bugs? Don't be lazy, give back:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/

Planetcracker. Believe it.

The stigma of hunger. http://wayw.re/Vi12BK

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,250
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2016, 10:25:39 PM »
All I am thinking now is this quote from a friend
(I lost track of the conversation a page back)

Quote from: DictatorOwl
also, just happend in our StarWars RPG.
I'm playing a Nosaurian, funny little lizard people as character. Intense situation. Spaceship about to crash. Gotta do some emergency repairs.
Chukka (my character) gets instructions: QUICK, JUST FUSE THE RED WIRES WITH THE BLUE ONES*
me: .... well.. that's gonna be a problem....I can't see a red or blue wire...
everyone else: WHY? Its clearly there!
me: ... you guys know that I'm colourblind, right?
(entire species is colourblind.)
leads to some funny things
"why is everyone scared when I light my lightsaber? I mean I'm not THAT scary looking..."
"... because it's RED."
"... what is red?"

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2016, 11:51:09 PM »
I think it was smart to reboot the canon, honestly.  I like a lot of what was in the old EU, but it's time for some fresh stuff.  Knowing in advance what the future might hold just really would work against these movies.
Honestly, I think they could've just thrown out the yuuzhan vong (as much as I liked Traitor, the entire YV series was not especially good), added a clause for something like 'the movies may make their own direction instead of following the EU' and been fine.

Didn't they though? I don't remember the YV being mentioned in the movie. Were they?
They threw out rebranded the entire EU, not just the YV. But theres some decent stuff buried in the blandness of the full EU like, yknow. Admiral Thrawn. Now someone would have to write a new book that involved him to bring him back, which will probably end less than great at best.

Not even suggesting they look through all of it, since theres far too much of it. Just ask who the best non-movie-based EU characters are (on their site, or facebook, whatever), add those into a movie or a decent book eventually, throw out the entire YV section because no matter what it'll end up conflicting with future stuff, ignore everything non-movie pre-Yavin (because I highly doubt people will accept more prequel movies at this point), maybe skim those large-sized book Essential Guides full of ships and droids and species (but not the chronology one, since they aren't going to follow it anyway) to maybe use in the background and be done. Its not as blunt and simple a plan, but it'd probably be the least effort without just dumping the interesting people out along with all the unread books.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 11:53:42 PM by Aklyon »

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2016, 01:56:43 AM »
There's also the added fact that 95% or more of all Star Wars fans haven't even read any of the other canon. So fitting that into the new movie would probably turn out as disastrous as expecting the audience of the new Warcraft film to know the backstory of the past 1,000 years of Azeroth, and the film critics scratching their heads thinking, "What the heck is going on here?" Disaster.
Though if you've seen the Warcraft film you know that knowing the history of Azeroth is completely superflous as the movie does nothing to adhere to it whatsoever, except for a few concepts and names. Pretty much everything has been changed. Off the top of my head:

- Garona is half human, half orc. No. She's half draenai, half orc.
- Garona was under mental compulsion, not slavery, by Gul'Dan.
- Gul'dan wasn't even in Azeroth as he was overseeing the invasion of other worlds from Draenor. He's the reason the planet was ripped apart when he opened hundreds of dark portals to other realms. Or rather tried to.
- The Frostwolves were definitely not in the warband to conquer Azeroth. They refused to take the fel energies and were banished by Gul'Dan, already on Draenor.
- The Orcs didn't camp out in front of the portal. They took up residence in Blackrock Mountain, led by Blackhand. Blackhand was not the puppet of Gul'Dan, as Gul'Dan was on Draenor.

The list goes on and on. They changed SO MUCH and some of it I understand from a movie perspective (getting Frostwolves in so they could shoehorn in the birth of Go'El (Thrall) for a sequel) but some I do not at all.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,752
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Does the new Steam refund system hurt indie developers? [TB video]
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2016, 03:35:19 AM »
Holy cow, you mean they didn't even stick with the lore of the game? That's even worse than I thought.

And no, I didn't see the movie (have no intention to). I was just interested in what the reviewers thought, given that it was the biggest video game to movie adaptation of all time. Over and over again the biggest complaint was the hilariously confused, "What's going on here again?" Apparently the first half of the movie is a bunch of obscure references to things that a person with no knowledge of the series would even have the slightest idea about. At least that's what I read over and over. Of course the fans had a much higher opinion of it, probably because they understood a fraction of what was going on, and also because if it's made by Blizzard iz gud.

Well, if the movie had been highly received I definitely would have gone and seen it, but I didn't have high hopes. I loved the Warcraft 3 story, it was one of the most interesting plotlines of any game I've ever played. The whole story with Uther, Arthas, his father the king, Grom Hellscream (god that final cinematic brought tears to my eyes), damn it was all so good. But from what I've heard, World of Warcraft butchered the storyline, and apparently this movie has somehow managed to butcher the butchery.

"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk