Author Topic: Do you like Diablo 3?  (Read 111298 times)

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #225 on: June 21, 2012, 08:44:51 am »
Woah there. I've got a long standing rule against debating religion on the internet, because it's about as productive as breaking rocks by hand, but slightly more painful. I just linked that article because I thought it was an interesting take on the subject, and doesn't really rely on any Christian underpinning to reach its conclusion. That said, if your response to it boils down to, as I read it, 'Christians can only make Christian arguments and in my view all Christian arguments are wrong' then there's nothing I can say to defend it: forget I mentioned it. The only way through that particular blockade is pages and pages of arguing religion, for which I refer you to my first point.  ;)
Couple things:

The point I was trying to make was not that Christians can only make Christian arguments - my point was that C.S. Lewis WAS making a Christian argument in the article you linked.  He mentioned the scripture several times throughout the essay, and talked about "What bad men actually deserve".  It seems clear to me that his motivations were Christian.  I could be completely wrong, but regardless, I still think he has no idea what he's talking about. 

Secondly, I appreciate your desire not to start any fires by arguing religion online, but would you be more comfortable discussing religion in person?  It seems to be me that most people who say they don't want to discuss religion online, simply mean they don't want to discuss religion.  That's fine with me, as the AI War forums probably aren't the best place; but I think that religion in America is something that needs to be discussed.  This social stigma we have against talking about it is extremely harmful, because I consider it to be one of the main problems with the country.  The current war on gay rights is a great example.  So in other words, I think it's pretty disingenious to defend something if you're not willing to explain your reasons why (which I would be happy to do so with you in another venue).

Quote
Everyone's worldview prevents them from "seeing things clearly", whatever that might mean. That's not even a postmodernist point. It's just obvious.
In the example we're discussing, one person's worldview was backed up by evidence and reason, the other person's seemed to be a religious rant on why people should be punished.

Also, the meaning of "seeing things clearly" should be pretty obvious, unless you think that nothing is true or real, in which case I have no desire to continue discussing with you.  I simply mean some people see the truth of reality better than others do, because they have no religious biases and can make decisions based on the evidence, not ancient tradition.

Quote
My worldview, for instance, leads me to see any outright vilification, denigration or simple dismissal of others' worldviews - capitalism, Christianity, whatever - as laughably misguided.
It wasn't intended to be an outright villification, though it may have seemed that way.  Everything I said about Christianity is true is it not?  We are born in sin and must accept human sacrifice or spend eternity in hellfire.  If you actually believe that madness it WOULD taint your perception of human beings wouldn't it?

I think if you have a problem with that you have a problem with Christianity, not my explanation of it.

Secondly, consider the topic we're discussing.  We're talking about punishing people, often for their entire lives, for a single mistake.  We're talking about vilifying a human being for something that could probably be fixed through rehabilitation.  I'm sorry, but if you want to take the stance that punishing a human being and taking away their life is helpful to society, you better be ready to back that up.  You better be ready to back your motives for that up.  If your motives are Christianity (which C.S. Lewis' seemed to be), then you better be ready to back those up too.  This isn't something I'm going to take lightly, nor should you.

Quote
But as with Bob, I've no desire to get involved in a theologically-based conversation on the internet or anywhere else, frankly - they rarely end well for anyone!
Unfortunately I must point out that your stance on this issue (the default stance) is very harmful to society.  Sometimes, people's feelings need to be hurt because there's something they need to hear.  If we never discuss the main problems behind our nation (which I think are religion and politics) how can they ever get fixed? 

The AI War forums may not be the place, but I'm happy to discuss it with you anywhere you would like.


« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 08:57:03 am by Wingflier »
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #226 on: June 21, 2012, 09:03:37 am »
You, sir, presume to know an awful lot about my stance based on very little indeed!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #227 on: June 21, 2012, 09:07:19 am »
I don't actually!  That's why I want to discuss it with you!
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #228 on: June 21, 2012, 09:35:13 am »
We have a very mature community here so I was willing (with trepidation) to let the capitalism discussion go on (in most internet communities that would have been sufficient material for a flame-war).  But I think I'm going to have to draw the line before a theologically-charged discussion.  I would really like for our community to be such that we could conduct such things in a peaceful way without making lots of other people (i.e. customers) uncomfortable but I really don't see that happening.  Just as if I was running a retail games store I wouldn't want folks going hammer and tongs over an issue like this in the middle of the sales floor (even if I agreed with everything being said) ; not great for the desired atmosphere.

Private conversations are fine, of course :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Wingflier

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,753
  • To add me on Steam, click the little Steam icon ^
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #229 on: June 21, 2012, 09:52:57 am »
I believe I mentioned in my post that the AI War forums aren't the place for this, for that very reason.

I don't really mind if people's feelings get hurt because sometimes that's an indication of a productive discussion, but I don't want to make Arcen look bad either.

So please feel free to PM me, I'd love to continue this discussion on Skype or anywhere else!
"Inner peace is the void of expectation. It is the absence of our shared desperation to feel a certain way."

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #230 on: June 21, 2012, 10:25:48 am »
I believe I mentioned in my post that the AI War forums aren't the place for this, for that very reason.
I confess that I didn't read the posts other than to figure out what was going on :)  A bit pressed for time.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #231 on: June 21, 2012, 06:38:35 pm »
There's a reason why we don't discuss politics, religion or...something else I swear there's a third topic. Because as a general rule of thumb, there is no way to have a civil discussion about either topic without emotions getting involved. Heck, I can't have a political discussion with my own family without it getting heated, how can I expect to have a civil discussion with people on the interwebs? Why is it this way? Because politics and religion shape our view of the world and we all (including me) believe our view is right. Even if its wrong. And we don't want or like being wrong. At least, I think that's how it goes. Might be wrong (haha). ;)

Just my 2cents, lets get this back to Diablo 3 because holy moly religion has nothing to do with Diablo 3.....except that it has Angels...and Demons.....oh bugger all. ;)

Anyway, latest patch now requires people who initially buy the game to wait 72 hours as a TRIAL Account to make sure your not going to fraud someone. Truly, Blizzard knows good customer service practices. NOT. I gotta say, buying this game just seems like a stupid idea at this point. Your locked to a server all the time, you can't play the game for much for 72 hours, what's the point?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/21/digital-diablo-iii-purchases-restricted-for-up-to-3-days/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RockPaperShotgun+%28Rock%2C+Paper%2C+Shotgun%29

King
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline zespri

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,109
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #232 on: June 21, 2012, 07:08:13 pm »
I wonder if it's 72 hours of playtime? Would not it be nice to do the skeleton king over... and over... and over.. and over...

Not it's sure not 72 hours of play time. Can some one explain to me in plain English, why they are doing this? How is this going to prevent or even deter fraud?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 07:09:59 pm by zespri »

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,332
  • A Paladin Without A Crusade...
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2012, 08:14:49 pm »
I wonder if it's 72 hours of playtime? Would not it be nice to do the skeleton king over... and over... and over.. and over...

Not it's sure not 72 hours of play time. Can some one explain to me in plain English, why they are doing this? How is this going to prevent or even deter fraud?

It is 72 hours real-world-time as I understand it and their "belief" (I'm all sorts of clever today ;)) is that they hope spammers/frauds will do their nefarious deeds within that 72 hours, thus allowing them to ban the accounts before it affects the servers.

I don't think they realized they can wait 72 hours and then do their stuff.

King
Casual reviewer with a sense of justice.
Visit the Arcen Mantis to help: https://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/
A Paladin's Blog. Long form videogame reviews focusing on mechanics and narrative analyzing. Plus other stuff. www.kingisaaclinksr.com

Offline zespri

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,109
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2012, 08:24:59 pm »
I don't think they realized they can wait 72 hours and then do their stuff.

They can't be THAT stupid. There are many people reviewing and re-reviewing these decisions I'm sure. The should be another reason.

Offline Hearteater

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,334
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #235 on: June 21, 2012, 09:09:16 pm »
I have 63 hours played in Diablo.  I have a level 51 and 37 and I should be doing Hell difficulty (although I'm still messing around in Nightmare Act 3 since I'm doing it multi-player).  72 hours is huge.  That's "finish the game 3 times" long.  So being restricted to level 13 and Act 1 for 72 playtime hours would be insane.  No one could replay that content for 72 hours.  That would be like waterboarding someone.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #236 on: June 21, 2012, 09:33:54 pm »
They can't be THAT stupid. There are many people reviewing and re-reviewing these decisions I'm sure. The should be another reason.
Normally I would agree with you, but I've worked IT for part of a large organization (15,000 or so employees, 200+ years old) and I saw some strange decisions get made.  Like, "this cannot possibly be in anyone's best interest, even the people at the top" stuff.

Particularly when legal concernspanic was involved.

That said, Blizzard hasn't yet done anything on that order that I'm aware of, so yea, I think there's got to be another explanation.  Not one I'd like any better, but another one. 

Maybe they wanted to do their retail partners a favor (this is digital-download-version only, right?). 

Maybe they lost a bet.  Maybe they got drunk.  Maybe both.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline chemical_art

  • Core Member Mark IV
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Fabulous
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #237 on: June 22, 2012, 12:46:43 am »
The 72 hours bit isn't to prevent crime in game, its meant to catch nefarious ppl who use fraud on another's credit card to buy game.

Of course, in the process of stopping crime, everyone new suffers.

Yuck, yuck, yuck!
Life is short. Have fun.

Offline zespri

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,109
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #238 on: June 22, 2012, 01:22:11 am »
The 72 hours bit isn't to prevent crime in game, its meant to catch nefarious ppl who use fraud on another's credit card to buy game.

It kind of makes sense this way.

Offline eRe4s3r

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,825
Re: Do you like Diablo 3?
« Reply #239 on: June 22, 2012, 02:54:15 am »
This is truly insane. Seriously, this is.. this is beyond words. There are stupid decisions, there is corporate necessary evil of DRM (EA, Ubisoft) but Blizzard really sets the bar here. That is the lowest of the low. That is putting together all the reasons why I HATE always-on. And NONE of the reasons why would I love it.

The *only* reason they do that is because of the RMT AH. .. Heh i can't even rant. This is the most absurd thing I ever heard.

"Hey, buy our game, its the full version and its fulll price.. it's just the demo for 3 days though." Wow.... I am tempted to give my game back, I am not going to support something like Blizzard ever again.
Proud member of the Initiative for Bigger Weapons EV. - Bringer of Additive Blended Doom - Vote for Lore, get free cookie

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk