Do you like Diablo 3?

[zespri]

I think a part of that is the attitude towards tools.

What did you just call me?

But this extends to other realms as well. Soldak programs in C++ vs Arcen's C#. C# is not only safer to code in, it's also hugely more efficient in terms of coding time. Arcen builds their games on top of Unity, which is a well-tested engine used by hundreds of developers. This means that there is less chance for bugs, and that if they want to, they can insert into their game the latest tech used by the industry because it's already included as part of the engine. Soldak has its own custom engine, and it's one straight out of 1999. Because it has only been used for 3 games, the engine is buggy, and adding capabilities is difficult -- I'm sure there's tons of spaghetti code inside. That's why it's not trivial to add even 3d effects that were used 10 years ago -- this stuff isn't easy to do from scratch: it's a lot of math and engineering. Soldak's engine didn't even have perspective projection until Din's Curse came out!

I wonder if he is using the same technology to make Drox Operative. Do you know?

[eRe4s3r]

Bluddy.. while Unity is well tested there are some issues with it that are hilariously annoying and are a nightmare to fix.

For a blast from the past (don't ask how i still have the link ,p) (by the way, this is the bug i meant)

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=937#c4801

You should read this bug report in its entirety to understand why I don't much like Unity and absolute adore Arcengames.. I mean that bug? That was insane

This is the bug report that pretty much made me adore Arcengames though. ^^ It's a good thing x4000 got that Death Adder mouse... hehe or I might have gone insane! ;p

[BobTheJanitor]

Unity is fun. Endless Space is using it too. 90% of the problems are with the Steam overlay causing shift to stay stuck on. Just like the good old days of AI War.

[eRe4s3r]

It's worth noting that they don't use the Unity GUI but their own coded system for GUI (on top of the Unity Engine).. that is probably why it is so pretty.. not that Unity GUI is ugly, but it cant do a lot of the stuff they do in their GUI

Anyhow.. I wonder how we got to talking about Soldak and support by indy devs from how we like Diablo 3 ;p I find this topic a lot more Interesting now though, hehe

[zespri]

So after palying Diablo 3 on normal with Monks, I decided to do Act I with every other class.

I think that monk is the easiest to play (at least in the first act and Wizard is the hardest). The difference I'd say quite considerable. If with Monk a have not died once in Act I and have not used healing potions at all, with wizard I was dieing a lot and was running out of potions pretty fast. I had to go to AH and by a proper weapon before being able to beat skeleton king. I wonder if this difference in difficulty intended or do I simply suck as a ranged class?

Another intersting thinig is that with Witch Doctor and Wizard you can use any allowed weapon with all your spells, but with Demon Hunter you can equip non projectile weapons but you "signature" spells are not working with anything but projectille. I found it extremely surprising. What is the point to run with the sword if you main spells simply don't work with it? Am I missing something?

[Bluddy]

I wonder if he is using the same technology to make Drox Operative. Do you know?

He is, but space games in general need very minimal engines/resources. This is why space is a really great topic for games. All you need is some scrolling backgrounds, a few objects, and spaceships. Anything that's mechanical doesn't need a high polygon count to look good, which is why spaceships and cars look good even in old games, while humans, monsters and animals seem lacking if they don't have a polygon count that matches what the current generation can do.

Bottom line is, with some good art direction, even a less capable game engine can make a space game look great, so don't let it deter you. While the engine isn't the best in Soldak's games, the games themselves are awesome.

[keith.lamothe]

It's worth noting that they don't use the Unity GUI but their own coded system for GUI (on top of the Unity Engine).. that is probably why it is so pretty.. not that Unity GUI is ugly, but it cant do a lot of the stuff they do in their GUI

Yea, we wound up making our own GUI layer for AVWW too, though we still use the Unity GUI for active textboxes (the one the cursor is actually in).  But that's just because we didn't want to spend the time implementing our own textbox, so I imagine we'll exterminate the last of the GUI.(whatever) references later.

The Unity GUI thing isn't really all that bad, but it hasn't had the work done on it that their main rendering stuff has seen, so it's got lots of quirks that get in the way for serious projects.

[StevenPeeler]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to drop in and answer a few things.

We do usually support our games pretty well. The time period between when Depths of Peril came out and the latest patch is almost 4 years. However, this year we haven't been updating things as well as normal. The specifics aren't important because ultimately it's my fault. This should change shortly though, because I'm planning a DC patch soon after Drox Operative goes into beta.

While I'm on the topic of patches, Arcen's patch rate is nothing short of awesome.

Our codebase is in C++ like Bluddy mentioned, but it is pretty clean and easy to work with. Fixing things is usually not the problem. Doing all of the portal stuff is the exhausting part.

Now days when I talk to up and coming indie developers I point them towards Unity. Unfortunately when I started Soldak almost 8 years ago there really weren't many viable, reasonably priced engine choices like Unity.

[eRe4s3r]

Surprise posts ftw ,) Was it google alerts? ;P

I still have no idea what kind of game Drox is going to be so yeah..  any plans on more media releases when the beta comes (gameplay videos.. obviously ,p) ? And your own patching system?

I am sorry If i sound particularly negative but certain games of 2011 (Sots 2, Stronghold 3) have made me a lot more doubtful about Indy devs... and their promises. Never gonna pre-order any game I don't already know in and out, and never again a game from Paradox until a year has passed.

Anyway, nice to see you here...

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Surprise posts ftw ,) Was it google alerts? ;P

I still have no idea what kind of game Drox is going to be so yeah..  any plans on more media releases when the beta comes (gameplay videos.. obviously ,p) ? And your own patching system?

I am sorry If i sound particularly negative but certain games of 2011 (Sots 2, Stronghold 3) have made me a lot more doubtful about Indy devs... and their promises. Never gonna pre-order any game I don't already know in and out, and never again a game from Paradox until a year has passed.

Anyway, nice to see you here...

What's your issue with paradox? I am genuinely curious, except for the bugs in Magicka I haven't heard anything bad about them.

King

[eRe4s3r]

Sword of the Stars 2 is published by Paradox, and Paradox did exactly 0 QA and They lied before release about the state of the game I don't even care what the reasons are or were, fact is Paradox released the game NOT Kerberos and thus, the one to blame for the mess that is SOTS2 is Paradox. As publisher it is their business whether a game is ready or not.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Sword of the Stars 2 is published by Paradox, and Paradox did exactly 0 QA and They lied before release about the state of the game I don't even care what the reasons are or were, fact is Paradox released the game NOT Kerberos and thus, the one to blame for the mess that is SOTS2 is Paradox. As publisher it is their business whether a game is ready or not.

Ah....yes....that game. I do not blame you at all for being unhappy about that game, I was rather...disappointed that anyone would release a game in that poor of a state and sell it as high as they did with little to no warning. Although I guess I missed that Paradox published it. *whoops*. That game is a failure on many levels...I still don't get how Paradox could have released that game as it was. Surely someone took a look at it...you would think.

King

[eRe4s3r]

Given that they actually released the wrong version on steam release I highly doubt it. (not that there was a huge difference, but the release version before fix literally did not even start) ^^ And knowing how steam releases work, there is literally NO WAY that Paradox could not have known or found this. Even after a "coming out" We still do not even know why this release happened this way. Paradox never said anything about what happened, only Mecron did. And that was not exactly.. detailed.

Anyhow.. the game has gotten slightly less buggy since that day but it has not yet reached the state I would call "release ready".... that would be fine if it hadn't been sold to us as "release ready" nearly 8 months ago at full price.

[chemical_art]

8 months ago Paradox had an atricious QA for their games at the start. Hearts of Iron 3 has been a huge bugfest when it started.

However, I think SotS2 was the straw that broke the camels back. I say this because lately I haven't seen any bad paradox games at release. Their newest large game, Crusader Kings 2, is playable almost bug free right out the box, and with patches 2 months after release there are no bugs I see.

On another hand, they have a mod for their EU3 game called Magni Mundi or something. That game was meant to be out early this year, it has not. It has not because Paradox put their foot down and said "Game too buggy, not ready for release." Now they don't know what will happen to it, whether it is scrapped and said with it explicitly saying "BETA" or whatever. What they won't do is allow to be released fully because it doesn't pass QA.

[keith.lamothe]

SotS2's state was a surprise to me after the Magicka "release" (boy was that a rocky ride, but they did get it cleaned up).

I am sorry If i sound particularly negative but certain games of 2011 (Sots 2, Stronghold 3) have made me a lot more doubtful about Indy devs... and their promises.

Wait, what?  You yourself said that in Sots2's case the main fault for the state of the release was with the publisher.  Granted, the definition of "indie" is pretty amorphous, but all the ones I'm aware of include the "does not have the traditional developer-publisher relationship" (or, more briefly, "self-publishes").  Basically, no game published by Paradox would be indie.  Not that I really care a whole lot about whether a game is or is not, but I'm trying to make sense of your statement

On another note, Crusader Kings 2 is a very nicely done game.