Author Topic: Dead Cells' 4th update  (Read 1681 times)

Offline Misery

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Dead Cells' 4th update
« on: November 07, 2017, 07:57:52 PM »
Okay, I remember there was some interest in this game here, so I thought I'd give some info on this if anyone was interested.  Right now this update is playable in the beta branch of the game.  The content is finished:  They're just in bug-search mode right now until the update fully releases.

Anyway, I'm copying this directly from what I posted on Steam earlier:


Firstly:  THE SHIELDS DONT SUCK ANYMORE.  I'm moderately baffled at this.  They were terrible before, I had found them unusable.  Now they are anywhere from good to awesome.   You can hold them in front of you to just help you tank incoming damage, but you can also parry if you do it at the right instant.  The key to THAT is that the timing of the shields has also changed.  There was this really bizarre delay with them before, where you had to hit the button a bit BEFORE the attack would hit you in order for it to do anything.  Now, it's more like dodge timing:  Just hit it right when the attack would connect.  The timing isnt ultra strict.  Most shields have some sort of effect when they parry.  Often they can also cause stun.   If you parry a projectile, it fires a green energy bolt forwards, no matter what angle the shot came from.  If you arent good at the parrying, just hold the thing and tank hits when you see the need.  Like dodging though you're best off trying to do it properly.  There is one shield that is specifically incapable of parrying.  Oh, and you can reflect grenade-type projectiles too, in a similar way to how the shovel does it.  The shovel however is still more effective at that.

Second:  Remember how you could unlock upgrades for all of the game's weapons and items?  Gone.  Entirely gone.  That mechanic is completely removed.  This is likely to bother some players quite a bit, but I personally think it was absolutely the right move.  The two upgrades you DO unlock still are the ones for increasing the flask, and increasing how much gold carries over from each run to the next.  Other than that, the whole system is about unlocking rather than upgrading.

Third:  Massive rebalance of damn near everything.  At no point in my runs tonight did I go into a situation and feel like an overpowered mess.  Many fights were a good bit harder, whereas previously I'd just go in like some sort of demented lawnmower and flatten everything.

Fourth:  Part of that though is due to the totally new stats system.  Strength/skill/HP, that system is gone.  Now it's Brutality, Tactics, and Survival.  Color coded red, purple, and green respectively.  They each have numerous effects when upgraded (previously they all did exactly one super simple thing and that was it), and you'll get a description of exactly what they do when it's time to upgrade.  The key though is that your weapons/skills are also color coded.  A skill that's red will take power from Brutality, for instance.  Plenty of items have dual colors, though this isnt always a 50/50 sort of thing.  Sometimes something might be 75% of one color, for instance.    Along with the fact that shields arent bloody terrible, this all means that your build is probably going to get ALOT more diversified.  One thing the devs have been going for from the very start is to get players to constantly switch up their items over the course of each run, and I think this is going to add alot more to that.   What's more though, the nature of the scrolls themselves is different.  Most scrolls are dual types, allowing you to pick from two of the three stats.  You have alot more choice here.  There seem to also be alot more scrolls, period.  I dont think I saw even one scroll that didn't involve you getting to make a choice.

Fifth:  New runes to find!  I've encountered two types of areas I cannot get to.  One involves what we've all seen, the wall jump.   Another involves a floor that when you see it, is really obvious that you're somehow supposed to do some sort of super stomp and break it.  Now these seem alot more interesting than the previous two runes, which are just glorified keys.  But how much they'll actually play into the gameplay as a whole, I dont know.  I dont have them yet.

Sixth:  New areas!  I got to the Clocktower.  Got murdered by horrible stabby things. I actually got there from the Fjord, which now has two exits.

Seventh:  New items and unlocks!  Some interesting things here.  Including a couple of shop-related unlocks, both of which take about a million Cells to do.  There is also unlock for a bizarre sort of special grenade.  I dont know exactly how it works, but it's supposed to assist you in getting rare blueprints (previously a giant pain in the butt to find).

8th:  More secret areas.  Typically these seem to have money in them.  I've found that the map actually kinda gives them away... they might wanna fix that.

9th:  There is another boss somewhere.

Really, this is a BIG update.  Huge.  Seems like a really good one.

On a side note, elite mini-zombies can go jump off a cliff.   Elite monsters are nasty to begin with but as far as I'm concerned, that one is the worst.   ...Unless there's an elite version of that horrible stabby dude in the Clocktower.  That is probably worse.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 08:34:27 PM »
I opted into the beta yesterday but didn't had a chance to play it. I'm still occupied with Dota 7.07. This update is so amazing.
I read the patch notes though and I like the stat changes. Stats felt so static and unimportant in the game. You simply put everything in one stat, either all strentgh for normal attack damage, skill for items or hp for tankyness.
Shields rework was long overdue, in fact it is already the second rework. I'm glad they finally foudn soemthign that makes same rewarding and fun to play.

The whole unlock/upgrade system rework is also nice. Upgrades were kinda... confusing to use. Since you could upgrade any item, you didn't know if it was worth this. technically you could go two ways, simply unlock a few items and upgrade them to max, getting a high chance of getting these items with awesome stats or you unlock many items but with little to no upgrades, so a bigger variation but not so strong.
In that regard, I felt upgrades unnecessary,  rather have a bigger pool of items I can find than 5 weapons with overpowered stats.

Offline Misery

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 09:17:23 PM »
Agreed.   The stats and everything is soooooooo much better.  Already my character build and the decisions that appear are just so much more interesting than before.  Just maxing strength all the time was boring.

Oh, one other thing:  Amulets.  These are DRAMATICALLY better.  But they're also so very, very much harder to get.  I mean seriously these things are pretty crazy in what they can do.  It seems that every elite enemy will drop one.  They appear rare now, otherwise.  I kinda suspect that the shop upgrade will cause them to be sold potentially, albeit probably at a ridiculous price.

Shields at times seem a little buggy though right now.  It's like, sometimes it very clearly registers a parry (because the word "PARRY!!!" appears) but the effects don't always happen.  Not super common, but it happens enough that it can throw you off.  I also had one of those pirate guys completely lock up after a parry once.  Likely they'll fix it fast though.

I also found out that the only two exits from the Fjord are the Clocktower, and the Forgotten Sepulchre.  The Sepulchre is actually the easier of the two exits to reach.  I find this baffling.  The last time I was there, the area was a horrible gimmicky mess.  Previously it required that you go through the Ossuary to get to it.

The Clocktower is also hopefully going to get some tweaks.  The "stabby dudes" I'd mentioned seem to be a bit of a mess right now.  I find it hard to even tell what they're doing. They do a triple slash, but they can leap really fast between each slash and can be either in front of or behind you in an instant, but they don't always do this, so it's very confusing. If you remember the type of leap that the first boss does, it's basically that leap except much faster and with very little warning and you don't entirely know where they will land.  I did in fact run into an elite one:  Just as utterly broken as I'd expected.  It was nearly unkillable.  I defeated it through a nasty cheese tactic (normally I'd never do that, because it seems like cheating).  To be honest, even the Sepulchre wasn't as irritating as that, which is saying something.  I'm expecting a lot of players are going to get more than a bit frustrated when they get to this part of the game.

I tried specifically bringing a shield to fight those guys this time (previous run I didn't have one at that time), but because of the whole "they MIGHT be behind you sometimes maybe" bit, it doesn't help against them.  I feel like I *must* have an ice attack to properly deal with them (because it slows them down).

That's one thing I'd like to see changed:  Total rework of the elite system.  It's.... bad, right now.  The only thing it does is A: they're bigger, B: they're a little faster, and C: they spawn too many stupid tiny zombies to cause visual confusion.   They're never fun to fight, but they COULD be.  I always feel like freeze/stun is a NECESSITY with some elites.  Elites should each have their own unique powers and enhancements depending on which enemy type it is, not just some global effect that is applied to every single one no matter what.  It'd be so much more interesting.  The devs are so very good at coming up with interesting enemy patterns, after all.


Oh, one other thing:  Skills related to healing (which are pretty rare) also were reworked.  Like that injection thing, previously it was a one-use item that gave you a healing effect and then temporary invincibility.  Now it still does that, but it empties afterwards and you recharge it when you recharge your flask.  The Vampirism skill is the same thing, and that one now lacks the "take way more damage when using this" bit (which is good, that was NOT a good skill before). 

Also I found a whip that isn't horrible and awful.  I suspect the purple whip still is though.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 01:35:17 PM »
Played it. Shields are super awesome now, i fact, I pick the shield over the bow all the time now.
The difference in stats is awesome and now you get mre HP no matter what you pick. This was some issue before, you had to put some points in health if you didn't want to die in one hit from late-game enemies.
I like the short damage buffs when you kill something, this keeps the flow going and you can chain your kills better together than before. However, it fells a little too op right now, especially since multiple sources stack.

Offline Misery

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 09:06:54 PM »
Played it. Shields are super awesome now, i fact, I pick the shield over the bow all the time now.
The difference in stats is awesome and now you get mre HP no matter what you pick. This was some issue before, you had to put some points in health if you didn't want to die in one hit from late-game enemies.
I like the short damage buffs when you kill something, this keeps the flow going and you can chain your kills better together than before. However, it fells a little too op right now, especially since multiple sources stack.

After a bit more time with the game, I'm not entirely sure on the shields now.

I've noticed that they are very.... inconsistent.  Unreliable.  As in, SOMETIMES their effects work on a successful parry.  Other times, the game just doesn't feel like it.  It's very, very obvious when a parry is successful, so it's equally obvious when a shield's effect doesn't function.  Like, I had a Force Shield through much of my last run, the one that puts a forcefield around you when parrying successfully, and MOST of the time, it didn't function.  The other effects of parrying worked, like 100% damage blocking and reflecting projectiles, but.... the forcefield sometimes just didn't want to work.  I noticed this with pretty much every shield I've gotten so far that has special effects upon parrying. 

A bug, perhaps?  I have no idea.  More experimentation is required.  Doesn't mean they aren't useful, but inconsistent effects can really mess things up in this particular game.

Also, I don't know if you've been this far into the game in this version yet, but the Fog Fjord (area right after Black Bridge) has been COMPLETELY redone.  Entire structure of the place is totally different now and keys are required to get to either exit. The enemy selection is also very different.  The pirate captains are still there, but the bazillions of mini-zombies are gone.  Which is good, they were just irritating.  Instead, there are these funky green zombies with weird heads.  Unlike other zombies they don't have any sort of sudden fast attack, they're pretty slow.  But when killed they break apart into about 5 really fast little grub monsters.  Nasty things, they can teleport to chase you.  Ice bombs or flashbangs are helpful against them (because of how fast they are), but I found shields to (usually, when they worked right) be effective against them, which I found kinda surprising (since they attack in a little horde).   Well, as long as you don't let one get behind you.   They're pretty nasty either way though, a lot more dangerous (but a lot more interesting) than the mini-zombies were.

The big grubs that split into a bazillion bombs are also there, from the sewers.   The Horrible Exploding Bat Things and the fat guys with the axes are still there like they've always been.  One odd one though is that the Shockers from the Ossuary are there.  Those can be a problem at times, it's best to make sure to have ranged attacks to deal with those (shields outright don't work on them as far as I know, and melee is a really bad idea).  It's a much better enemy selection overall.   And the structure of the level is also just much better, less unnecessarily time-consuming and it just feels like it flows a lot better.

The clocktower is chaos.  It's a bit better than it was before at least.   Before you jumped in, the previous version actually had some major balance issues that hadn't been apparent to me right away (but are obvious now that I look back on it and explains why it seemed like everything took 5 billion hits to kill).  Another one showed up not long after though, and that all seems fixed well enough.  Sort of.   A lot of players seem to be saying that spamming the survival stat is too strong now.  But I have no idea if that's entirely true or not.   But yeah, that place is just nasty.  Those leaping horrors are more than a little awful, the teleporting ninjas from the Sepulchre are there, there's those cluster-bomb dudes, and those nasty huge spinning guys (very rare in versions previous to this update, I believe they were in the Sepulchre only) are there too.   Shields seem completely useless against the jumping dudes.  I'm not entirely sure why.

EDIT:  Maybe really specific shields are bugged?  I got the Spike Shield on this last run and it worked just fine.

Bah.  "Not ready for public" versions of games can be very confusing.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 11:01:42 PM by Misery »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 06:41:06 AM »
The Horrible Exploding Bat Things
Prompted joint Castlevania/AVWW flashback, through some mysterious lateral process.

But do they have Eagles?
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 01:32:33 PM »
The Horrible Exploding Bat Things
Prompted joint Castlevania/AVWW flashback, through some mysterious lateral process.

But do they have Eagles?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoddamnedBats
Warning: TV Tropes link

Offline Misery

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 11:28:05 AM »
Warning: TV Tropes link

I clicked that, and then about 30 minutes of clicking and like 20 new tabs later, realized why it needed a warning.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 12:35:53 PM »
Warning: TV Tropes link

I clicked that, and then about 30 minutes of clicking and like 20 new tabs later, realized why it needed a warning.
Lol, this is so true. This site is like a drug, once you clicked one thing, you click another one and dig even deeper. And suddenly you realize you wasted 2 hours.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 01:32:57 PM »
Warning: TV Tropes link

I clicked that, and then about 30 minutes of clicking and like 20 new tabs later, realized why it needed a warning.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
Obligatory TV Tropes link warning

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 01:56:23 PM »
They have even a link for that?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 02:23:49 PM »
They have even a link for that?
Of course they do. It's the most helpful page on the site.
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 05:37:12 PM »
Sometimes I enjoy leaving TV Tropes lines laying around without a warning on them.
😈

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 09:07:49 PM »
Sometimes I enjoy leaving TV Tropes lines laying around without a warning on them.
😈
I bet they have a page for people like you.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Dead Cells' 4th update
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 09:35:35 PM »
I'm copying this from what I posted on Steam because I'm lazy:

Okay, so, I got the third rune....

....And it's just as bloody boring as the first two.  Yet another glorified key that has no other function whatsoever. 

This is the one part of the game where they've completely dropped the ball, which is the whole "Metroidvania" aspect.  It's just... bad.  It's bad.  I mean, seriously, these may as well be genuine doors and keys, for all that they add to the game, which is next to nothing.

I mean, you've got:  1, a skill that turns green blobs into ladders,   2, a skill that lets you teleport at those funky mummy coffins (very rarely used), and now 3, a skill that lets you break "weak floors".  Which are extremely specific spots with a red rune glowing on them.  It has no other function whatsoever.  Like the other two, it is just another key, completely forgettable.  You would think it would somehow enhance your stomp attack in other ways, but no.  Just a key.

Now I do know that the fourth rune is different:  It's the wall jump bit.  However, how much use this will actually have in combat, if any, I dont know.  But it at least has potential.

To be honest, were it up to me, the game would just drop the whole "Metroidvania" aspect and focus entirely on... everything else.  At this point, it's very clearly a pure combat platformer, with maze-like yet totally linear areas to explore.  And crappy bosses.

Speaking of which, the Watcher isnt the final boss anymore.  Now, like the jerk on the bridge, it's another first boss.  Which path you take determines which one of the two you fight.

So.... basically, never take the second path.  Got it.   Not until they A: completely rework that fight, or B: remove it.  I just cant be bothered to spend the 80 hours necessary to defeat that thing every freaking run.   At the very least, give the bloody thing a drastic decrease in HP.  It just takes WAY too long.

On the plus side, all the new items and skills are just sooooo good.  And the shield change remains awesome.

The third rune requires going through the Ossuary, by the way.  Which is BEFORE the Black Bridge.  The challenge level of it hasnt changed.   The Ossuary is no longer acessible from the prison area.  You can get there from the Promenade.  In other words, you're likely going into that area a bit weak, so be ready for some tough fights.  You really, really want some AoE abilities in there, and also hopefully some fire attacks.  Enemies like to group up here, and often among those groups is one of those huge sword guys that does the funky triple-chop.  Shields work on them, but it's hard to do that to the sword guys when Sonic the Death-hog is charging at you while you're covered in zombies and little slug things.

Also, Shockers.  Sure are alot of those in there.


Oh, and this most recent beta update fixes the cursed chests.  They now have scrolls in them once again, along with money and an item.  So they're back to being worth it.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 09:38:48 PM by Misery »