CS Education --- What's going right and wrong?

[Draco18s]

OTOH, there's teaching problem solving and failing to teach anything.

Sure, throw a few dozen people into the forest without any real survival training and a couple of them will still be alive after three weeks.  But they aren't going to trust you ever again, or the system/organization that was supposed to have taught them.

The problem is not that we need to teach problem solving, or how, but when.

http://www.ted.com/talks/sugata_mitra_build_a_school_in_the_cloud.html
http://www.npr.org/2013/06/21/179015266/how-much-can-children-teach-themselves

[Cyborg]

Well sure, but that's called high school. At that point, you are technically no longer a child and should have those skills.

[keith.lamothe]

Sure, throw a few dozen people into the forest without any real survival training and a couple of them will still be alive after three weeks.  But they aren't going to trust you ever again, or the system/organization that was supposed to have taught them.

Yup, high school.

Although middle school had more of the "Lord of the Flies" feel.

[Draco18s]

Well sure, but that's called high school. At that point, you are technically no longer a child and should have those skills.

Nops.  Public education beat creativity and problem solving out of me.

[keith.lamothe]

Nops.  Public education beat creativity and problem solving out of me.

Yea; there were some really good people in the system that kept it from being a total loss, but the main benefit I derived from the system itself was a strong desperation to get out of academics and into fruitful labor, and a realization that I couldn't count on anyone else to make that possible.

[madcow]

Kind of an interesting topic that could be generalized to higher education in general

I am a little curious though, there's no thought here that having a CS degree is good for even just getting that first job, would a self-taught programmer even have a chance for the foot in the door?  I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what all is involved in a CS major as opposed to other comp majors.

[keith.lamothe]

I am a little curious though, there's no thought here that having a CS degree is good for even just getting that first job, would a self-taught programmer even have a chance for the foot in the door?  I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what all is involved in a CS major as opposed to other comp majors.

FWIW, I had two programming jobs before Arcen, and I don't have a degree.  But I got the first job largely by a personal connection, and the second one largely by personal connection and my track record at the first job.  The Arcen opportunity was largely based on past experience (strangely well-suited to Chris's specific needs, actually).

If I'd been trying to just submit applications to normal job postings... hoo boy, dunno how that would have gone.

And if it weren't for the college work I wouldn't have had those personal connections, or those opportunities.  Or, possibly, as much hobby experience, etc.  And the work itself did certainly help me along some important parts of the learning process.

[Cyborg]

If you want to work a corporate job (and there are reasons to do so), you will need a degree.

[keith.lamothe]

If you want to work a corporate job (and there are reasons to do so), you will need a degree.

Not necessarily.  But generally, yes.

[Shrugging Khan]

Just responding to the OP here:

I'm studying CS in Germany, and I find it to be exceedingly theoretical. Math is important, yes - no matter how little I like it - but the extensive focus on mathematics in CS seems to overshadow all other parts here, with students having to go out of their way to earn any practical experience throughout their studies.

Now, maybe I'm just making a mistake in going to university despite my nature being that of a tinkerer rather than an academic. But either way, I think CS as it is being taught here clings far too tightly to its mathematical aspects.

[Draco18s]

Now, maybe I'm just making a mistake in going to university despite my nature being that of a tinkerer rather than an academic. But either way, I think CS as it is being taught here clings far too tightly to its mathematical aspects.

Probably.  I can't do basic math in my head without mistakes any more.  Most of the work I do requires only that this number needs to be subtracted from that number without a care in the world for what the two numbers are.

So a lot of algebra (solving equations) and trig (angles, sin, cosine, etc), not a lot of anything else.