Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic

[Shrugging Khan]

However, I do not mind the passive deterrents that are present from a culture that allows me to, in theory, shoot invaders.

I wish I could say that. Burglars here can be pretty sure of a light sentence even if caught red-handed, and people who attack home invaders tend to get it worse than the invaders themselves. Hooray for justice: An old man who shot one of a group of burglars recently was convicted of homicide because he didn't let them run off with his possessions.

But these things somehow transcend our panatlantic cultural differences:

There was a minor media uproar about a German Turkish exchange student who got shot while breaking into an American garage. Most people here were baffled that such a thing was even possible, outraged at those barbaric Americans who murder kids who just want to have fun. The media circus went to town on the the man who did the shooting, and he was eventually convicted of murder. 70 years, 20 without parole. He ended up paying reparations to the parents and giving up all his guns as well.

I'm not really going anywhere with this tale; I just find it weird how burglaries and home invasions are considered perfectly trivial while defending one's home is seen as a criminal act.

[TheVampire100]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqOg1Dq5K4

[Cinth]

However, I do not mind the passive deterrents that are present from a culture that allows me to, in theory, shoot invaders.

I wish I could say that. Burglars here can be pretty sure of a light sentence even if caught red-handed, and people who attack home invaders tend to get it worse than the invaders themselves. Hooray for justice: An old man who shot one of a group of burglars recently was convicted of homicide because he didn't let them run off with his possessions.

But these things somehow transcend our panatlantic cultural differences:

There was a minor media uproar about a German Turkish exchange student who got shot while breaking into an American garage. Most people here were baffled that such a thing was even possible, outraged at those barbaric Americans who murder kids who just want to have fun. The media circus went to town on the the man who did the shooting, and he was eventually convicted of murder. 70 years, 20 without parole. He ended up paying reparations to the parents and giving up all his guns as well.

I'm not really going anywhere with this tale; I just find it weird how burglaries and home invasions are considered perfectly trivial while defending one's home is seen as a criminal act.

Castle Defense laws vary by state.  It's up to the individual to know and understand the relevant laws there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[chemical_art]

However, I do not mind the passive deterrents that are present from a culture that allows me to, in theory, shoot invaders.

I wish I could say that. Burglars here can be pretty sure of a light sentence even if caught red-handed, and people who attack home invaders tend to get it worse than the invaders themselves. Hooray for justice: An old man who shot one of a group of burglars recently was convicted of homicide because he didn't let them run off with his possessions.

But these things somehow transcend our panatlantic cultural differences:

There was a minor media uproar about a German Turkish exchange student who got shot while breaking into an American garage. Most people here were baffled that such a thing was even possible, outraged at those barbaric Americans who murder kids who just want to have fun. The media circus went to town on the the man who did the shooting, and he was eventually convicted of murder. 70 years, 20 without parole. He ended up paying reparations to the parents and giving up all his guns as well.

I'm not really going anywhere with this tale; I just find it weird how burglaries and home invasions are considered perfectly trivial while defending one's home is seen as a criminal act.

Castle Defense laws vary by state.  It's up to the individual to know and understand the relevant laws there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Which is why I said in theory. In practice it is more cloudy. But like everything with law, having a good lawyer helps as well.

Addendum: Of course if you wanted things to really get dark, you ensure you shoot to kill.  Other person can't dispute the claim of fear of life if they die in your home. On the other hand, if you shoot, you should intend to kill. One of the tenets of responsible firing in the first place.

[Cinth]

Which is why I said in theory. In practice it is more cloudy. But like everything with law, having a good lawyer helps as well.

Addendum: Of course if you wanted things to really get dark, you ensure you shoot to kill.  Other person can't dispute the claim of fear of life if they die in your home. On the other hand, if you shoot, you should intend to kill. One of the tenets of responsible firing in the first place.

Yeah.  It really does depend on where you live and the laws involved.

[Mánagarmr]

I'm not really going anywhere with this tale; I just find it weird how burglaries and home invasions are considered perfectly trivial while defending one's home is seen as a criminal act.

Easy. One is a loss of material goods. One is the permanent loss of a life. It's not really hard to see why there's a different value on those things.

[Misery]

I'm not really going anywhere with this tale; I just find it weird how burglaries and home invasions are considered perfectly trivial while defending one's home is seen as a criminal act.

Easy. One is a loss of material goods. One is the permanent loss of a life. It's not really hard to see why there's a different value on those things.

Yep.

If the burglar steals from you... then they steal from you.  Proper punishment is not killing them.  They get caught, they get locked up, and they have a chance to reexamine their life and what they did, and move on from there and become a better person. 

....unless you shoot them in the head.  And if you're shooting them in the head because they're running off with your damn TV or something, then... they arent the only ones in the wrong, that's for bloody sure.  If someone thinks that TV is worth someone else's life, then frankly, they deserve what comes to them.

Firing at them is not the answer, but because guns, people assume it is (sigh...).  Working with the police and providing information on the burglar IS the correct response.  Dont take THEIR job into YOUR hands.  Because chances are, you're not capable of doing it.

[chemical_art]

I would argue that the very act of invading someone's elses home is about the scariest law that can be broken aside from mass homicide. If someone is willing to break into my house when I am home, it means said individual is of a very bad state of mind. Either they are reckless or sneaky, and in either case the line between  burglar and robber (and far worst) is decided in seconds. If there ever was a time to use a firearm then that would be it.

[Cinth]

If someone was to break into my home, they better be prepared to die a horrible death.  I live in a castle defense state.  I'm going to assume they are in the home to do bodily harm (with my anxiety disorder it wouldn't be a stretch).  I have 2 small children and my gf here.  I'm not taking any chances. 

Note: I don't own any firearms because of said small children.  I keep a hunting knife and a BB bat close at hand. 

[Shrugging Khan]

Easy. One is a loss of material goods. One is the permanent loss of a life. It's not really hard to see why there's a different value on those things.

The loss of material goods that belonged to someone, and a loss that may cause them great harm. I'd say those material goods do have some good value.
The burglar's life is the life of someone who would do harm to others out of greed, and who violates the safety of their homes. Gets a solid negative value from me.

Firing at them is not the answer, but because guns, people assume it is (sigh...).

Thanks to gun control laws, any burglar I meet will instead be stabbed with a sword. Yay!

Working with the police and providing information on the burglar IS the correct response.  Dont take THEIR job into YOUR hands.  Because chances are, you're not capable of doing it.

Our views differ here. You may not trust people in general, I have only limited trust in the police. To be frank I find the entire idea of hunkering down and calling the police while somebody breaks into my home rather ridiculous. Oh, sure, there's the point that my own safety is at risk, since I'm not as well-armed as policemen are whereas the robber may carry a gun. Yeah, I guess I should leave the task of protecting my life to the police, too.

[Cinth]

Firing at them is not the answer, but because guns, people assume it is (sigh...).

Thanks to gun control laws, any burglar I meet will instead be stabbed with a sword. Yay!

In the end, there can be only one...  Here we are, born to be kings...

Working with the police and providing information on the burglar IS the correct response.  Dont take THEIR job into YOUR hands.  Because chances are, you're not capable of doing it.

Our views differ here. You may not trust people in general, I have only limited trust in the police. To be frank I find the entire idea of hunkering down and calling the police while somebody breaks into my home rather ridiculous. Oh, sure, there's the point that my own safety is at risk, since I'm not as well-armed as policemen are whereas the robber may carry a gun. Yeah, I guess I should leave the task of protecting my life to the police, too.

Agreed to an extent.  Eyewitness accounts aren't always reliable.  My neighbor had their apt broken into some time ago (since moved out).  My gf witnessed it through the peep hole in the door.  She couldn't give an accurate accounting of what happened despite watching it happen.

[Mánagarmr]

Easy. One is a loss of material goods. One is the permanent loss of a life. It's not really hard to see why there's a different value on those things.

The loss of material goods that belonged to someone, and a loss that may cause them great harm. I'd say those material goods do have some good value.
The burglar's life is the life of someone who would do harm to others out of greed, and who violates the safety of their homes. Gets a solid negative value from me.

I'm sorry, what? Yeah, sure, why don't we just execute everyone who commits a crime then because they're CLEARLY not worth their lives. Oh, hey! No jaywalking! *BLAM*

Are you serious? I mean, FOR REAL serious?

Edit: I'm sorry, I just have to rant some more here because this quite frankly disgusts me. How in the everyliving flames of hell can you value a bloody TV set over a LIFE? This person might get sent to jail and, as Misery said, actually change their ways and become a productive member of society, or they might not and remain a criminal for the rest of their life. But who the F*#¤ are YOU to decide who lives and not? REALLY?

[Wingflier]

Sorry, but gotta agree with SK on this one.

A person's home is their safe space. It's the one place in the world they should feel comfortable and secure.
When somebody breaks into your home, you don't know if they are there just to steal a TV. They could be there to cuddly hug  your daughter or kill your whole family. It's all happened many times before.

In my opinion, once you've crossed that threshold, consider your life forfeit. For me it's similar to the whole Micheal Brown controversy that happened a couple years back.

If you go for an officer's gun, you shouldn't expect to walk away from that alive, regardless of how many people saw you put your hands up. There are some lines you just don't cross.

[Shrugging Khan]

I'm sorry, what? Yeah, sure, why don't we just execute everyone who commits a crime then because they're CLEARLY not worth their lives. Oh, hey! No jaywalking! *BLAM*

Obviously jaywalking and home invasion are equivalent.

Are you serious? I mean, FOR REAL serious?

Yes.

Edit: I'm sorry, I just have to rant some more here because this quite frankly disgusts me. How in the everyliving flames of hell can you value a bloody TV set over a LIFE?

I don't even own anything as valuable as a TV worth stealing. But even if it was only a coffee pot - it's MY coffee pot. I worked for it. I cared for it. It made me coffee. That burglar is stealing my sustenance, time of my life spent working, the sanctity of my home, all the while presenting an incalculable risk to the personal safety of myself and those living with me. That person's life is not valuable to me, and it took on negative value when they broke into my home.

This person might get sent to jail and, as Misery said, actually change their ways and become a productive member of society, or they might not and remain a criminal for the rest of their life.

Remain a criminal, harm other people and potentially end up killing someone themselves.
You know, that person would have had every chance to go and reform themselves before breaking into somebody's home.

But who the F*#¤ are YOU to decide who lives and not? REALLY?

Whomsoever breaks into my home has made that decision all on their own.

No offense, but might it be that you're just appalled at the idea that someone might take care of such problems on their own rather than leave it to the police to maybe-or-maybe-not sort out the mess after the fact?

[TheVampire100]

Sorry, I cannot take this thread seriously anymore.