Civilization 5 Complete Edition

[Wingflier]

Sorry for asking for so many opinions recently, there have just been a lot of sales I'm interested in.

Most recently, Humble Bundle is offering the Civilization 5 complete edition for a pretty decent price.

I've heard some conflicting views on this game in the forums, and in general. A lot of people said that when Civ 5 came out it was somewhat of a disappointment, but many people think that all the DLC improved the game dramatically to the point that it's now worth it.

Chris I know you have an opinion on this subject.

[Toranth]

Each of the two major expansions fixed many of the problems present in the previous version.  So, if you buy anything, definitely get both expansions as well.
Personally, I think the biggest fault of the game was the 1-unit per tile, and that hasn't changed, but there are many people that like it, so YMMV.

As it is now, with Brave New World, it is playable and enjoyable.  There are balance issues, but you can play on high difficulties with several different strategies and all civs, so it isn't nearly as broken as it once was.

$12.50 is not a bad price for the game, if you like Civilization games at all.

[chemical_art]

I have recently starting to play with it again. It's certainly a lot better then when it first came out. For me the only point to hesitate is if you want to play this or play civ 4. Each has their pluses and minuses. Civ 5 has factions that feel a bit more unique and the single unit per tile makes combat a lot more tactical and overall combat is superior. On the other hand civ 4 I think has a lot more mod support (as long as you manually know how to unzip the files) and diplomacy is superior. Both are great games though.

[Wingflier]

I have recently starting to play with it again. It's certainly a lot better then when it first came out. For me the only point to hesitate is if you want to play this or play civ 4. Each has their pluses and minuses. Civ 5 has factions that feel a bit more unique and the single unit per tile makes combat a lot more tactical and overall combat is superior. On the other hand civ 4 I think has a lot more mod support (as long as you manually know how to unzip the files) and diplomacy is superior. Both are great games though.

Combat has always been a bigger deal to me than diplomacy (which has always been an extremely predictable drag in every game I've ever seen it in), and unique factions are also pretty neat as well, thinking back to games like Age of Empires 2. Thanks for the advice.

[Misery]

I'll just chime in to second the bit about the combat in Civ V.

I haaaaaaaaated the "stack of DOOOOOOM" concept in Civ IV.  Really couldnt stand it, so I didn't like the combat in that game at all.

But that's not an issue with this one.

So it just depends on which style you like more.  But yes, I think it's a very high quality game.  But pretty much every fan of it would indeed advise to get all of the expansions and such with it to really have the full experience.

[crazyroosterman]

pretty much got to agree with everyone else here although id like to add that without the expansions the ai in civ 5 is complete dog shit its hilariously incompetent so yes definitely get the complete edition.

[tombik]

Just to equate the hype versus hate balance, I wanted to include a well documented negative review of it.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/luckz/recommended/8930/

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I've played some of Civilization 5 and have enjoyed it so far. However, I haven't played any of the previous entries nor sequels so I lack perspective in that regard. Still, I didn't find anything wrong in the first 9 hours. Which is perhaps not enough. *shrug*. Those people above me probably know better.

[Shrugging Khan]

CivV is not CivIV, so to hell with it.
Yes, doomstacks are a problem. We recently quit a game when 250 Mongols tried to reenact the fall of Baghdad and out fingers would not let us do that anymore.
It's still the better game, with mods that would - on their own - blow CivV out of the water.

[Misery]

CivV is not CivIV, so to hell with it.
Yes, doomstacks are a problem. We recently quit a game when 250 Mongols tried to reenact the fall of Baghdad and out fingers would not let us do that anymore.
It's still the better game, with mods that would - on their own - blow CivV out of the water.

Yeah, alot of aspects seem better, definitely.

But still... much as I wanted to love that game, the stacks o' doom just murdered it with a hatchet for me.  A flaming hatchet covered in bees.  That have lasers.  And are on fire.  And explode.

It seems to be the polarizing issue for ALOT of players.  At least, it's the one I seem to hear about the most when seeing people discussing the two games.

[Toranth]

CivV is not CivIV, so to hell with it.
Yes, doomstacks are a problem. We recently quit a game when 250 Mongols tried to reenact the fall of Baghdad and out fingers would not let us do that anymore.
It's still the better game, with mods that would - on their own - blow CivV out of the water.

Yeah, alot of aspects seem better, definitely.

But still... much as I wanted to love that game, the stacks o' doom just murdered it with a hatchet for me.  A flaming hatchet covered in bees.  That have lasers.  And are on fire.  And explode.

It seems to be the polarizing issue for ALOT of players.  At least, it's the one I seem to hear about the most when seeing people discussing the two games.

I hate 1upt.  Instead of stacks of doom, you get slowly creeping carpets of doom.  Do you know why units can now magically transform themselves into boats?  Because they couldn't make 1upt work with transports before launch.

Creeping Carpets take so much more micromanagement than stacks, and place huge and annoying limitations on military usage.  Stacks could have been better countered through any sort of logistics system, by splash damage, or by power reduction (1 unit = 100% strength, 2 units = 75% strength, etc) - some of which were in Civ IV.

The other part of Civ V that drove me crazy was the absolute obsession of the designers to force players to avoid ICS.  But despite all they did, it STILL turns out to be one of the best strategies.

[Shrugging Khan]

There were a number of things they tried to do against stacks

Vanilla:

• Collateral Damage
• Nukes
• Withdrawal

Mods:

• Logistics
• Surrounding bonus
• AI that tries to run circles around you

Unfortunately all of these effects were either too weak or came with too many disadvantages to really turn the tables. Collateral Damage was capped, Nukes completely stopped diplomacy, Logistics was capped, Surround Bonuses were too small to matter, withdrawal was too unlikely, and the AI wasn't really smart enough. The terrain also tended to be too limited by topological and political boundaries for small armies to manoeuvre.
But eh, at least they tried.

To me, CivV just looks like they stopped trying entirely and just turned it into the misbegotten bastard child of just the idea of Civ as imagined by someone who never played it and a particularly mediocre board game - I guess it's to make it more accessible.

[chemical_art]

I will add that one thing about Civ5 is that if you take a city for any reason it adds to a "warmonger" stat. This is a diplomatic malus that eventually turns all the AI nations against you. The concept is nothing new. The problem is that
A) It does not decay in any meaningful way
B) Causing a bad diplomatic siutation with one causes pain with others, resulting in a very rapid diplomatic spiral
C) Even retaking your own cities contributes to this!

Even worse, all the mods that were created to help address this value were broken in a late patch and I have yet to see a mod fix it again. Save one: There is a mod for an in game editor that allows you to adjust the things on the fly. Literally you must beat the city to a pulp you feel acceptable then using the editor transfer the city to you. Leaving you to decide which cities you take normally and which ones you take hit free. A very inelegant solution, but a real one.

That's what I meant about Civ 4 diplomacy being superior. Plus its mods kick some serious ass.