Author Topic: Anyone got an Extra VotM Steam Key Lying Around? Trade for Bioshock 1.  (Read 5213 times)

Offline Castruccio

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I missed the Indie Royale Arcen bundle but would like a steam key for VoTM.  I have a copy of Bioshock 1 in my Steam inventory if anyone wants to trade a VotM key for it.  Otherwise, I'm just gonna re-buy VoTM on Steam.  PM me if interested.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 01:21:29 pm by Castruccio »

Offline Shrugging Khan

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I actually have one, but I can't find it anymore.
(So I re-bought it on gamersgate)

Not that I'd trade it for Bioshock, anyways  :P
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Offline Castruccio

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Bioshock is awesome!  One of the best games ever made in my opinion, and certainly among the best written.  Ken Levine is head and shoulders above writers at studios like Bioware and Blizzard.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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If I want something well-written, I'll read a book. If Ken Levine is the best writing video games have to offer (and he even needs to be compared to Bioware and - don't make me laugh - Blizzard to stand out), then games should probably just scrap writing altigether and focus on gameplay  8)

Hell yeah, thread derail!
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Offline Castruccio

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I couldn't agree more with your comment about books versus video games.  Nonetheless, sometimes I want to play a good video game, and as far as games writing goes his is top notch.  He was actually just hired to write the Logan's Run remake movie.  Who know if it will actually get made.

Offline Cyborg

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I like story with my video games. If it doesn't have a story, lore is a good substitute. In order for me to be immersed, I need some inspiration for my imagination, and that's where story comes in.

For some people, they are getting something very different out of video games, and story just doesn't matter. People enjoyed Pac-Man and all kinds of classic games for years without one iota of story.

I agree that Bioshock has an awesome story.  The atmosphere is amazing, and the gameplay is challenging. At least for me it was.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Well, speak for yourselves. I can remember hundreds of little details as well as the overarching story from games like Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, Bastion or The Longest Journey (Yeah, standard examples...but it's true!), Freespace 2: War in Heaven, Hotline Miami, and those really are games that get either the writing or the telling part of their stories very, very right, along with solid gameplay (or the solid absence of gameplay, in TLJ's case).

But the only thing I remember from BioShock was that I was relieved to be done with it, because it contained zero gameplay innovation, a scenario that tried far too hard and ended up utterly unbelievable, and a story that, as I played through it, completely failed to engage me.

Now, on the completely other end of the spectrum are games with no story at all, in which all energy went into engaging, innovative or extremely refined gameplay - Gimbal, Kerbal Space Program, Mount & Blade, AI War, Din's Curse, Civilisation 4, Europa Universalis III, Team Fortress 2 (yeah, they went lore-writing later on, but that was after my time), Dark Souls, Chivalry, Star Ruler...all of those games get by on the bare minimum of writing - just enough to set the tone, get the atmosphere right - and proceed to prove that it's better to concentrate on what you're good at than it is to try to be everything at once to everyone.

Which isn't to say that games can't have good writing - just that it's incredibly difficult to be both a good game AND well-written, because those are two completely different things that require completely different priorities, and unless your design team is full of geniuses that can cooperate perfectly, one of the two is going to suffer. Horribly.


PS: I'm not saying that Ken Levine is bad at writing or at making games, but merely that he's too unfocused, and that BioShock is not a great game by any standards, and even a rather worse one than System Shock 2.
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Offline Castruccio

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PS: I'm not saying that Ken Levine is bad at writing or at making games, but merely that he's too unfocused, and that BioShock is not a great game by any standards, and even a rather worse one than System Shock 2.[/size]

Not great by ANY standards?  See:  http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/bioshock


Offline Shrugging Khan

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Well, those guys have NO standards.
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Offline chemical_art

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Part of the matter with Bioshock is that it is a game that borrows directly or indirectly from a lot of sources. If you see the borrowing as a bad attempt it is ruined. However, if dont know the soirce material or enjoy the attempts, it seems great.

As for the story, its a fairly risky style in that it requires players to explore and actually listen to the audiofiles. If you dont explore or choose to read them it loses a lot of impact quickly.
As for gameplay, it is solid. However if you go into it looking to.compare it to other games you will start to lose the point.

At its core, if one chooses to enjoy Bioshock for what.it is, rather then what.they want it to be, it will brle a lot more enjoyable. This is.true for most games.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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So...it's good if you lower your expectations sufficiently?  :o
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Offline chemical_art

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So...it's good if you lower your expectations sufficiently?  :o

Its good if one plays games for enjoyment rather then worrying about standards that borderlines pretentious.
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Offline madcow

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Just weighing in to say that even if the writing in games isn't as good as books. I think the immersion factor of a game can make them an amazing form of story telling (so long as game mechanics doesn't get in the way).

An example would be the walking dead game. I never read the comics, but I honestly think (despite it honestly only barely being a game) the game was far and away better than the show.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Its good if one plays games for enjoyment rather then worrying about standards that borderlines pretentious.
But that kind of consumer behaviour leads to a market climate favouring conventional and unsurprising games!
We'll drown in remakes and graphically-polished-but-otherwise-boring sequels!
It'll be like hollywood's obsession with formulaic movies!

...haha, just kidding. We're already there.
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Offline Histidine

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I observe that games (and by extension their stories) are, by and large, not allowed to be merely "good." They're either "excellent" (see consistently inflated review scores) or trash.

On games vs. books: The comparison strikes me as being about as meaningful as oranges vs. potatoes. Does anyone bother to say that books have better writing than films (or vice-versa)?