After all this time, No Man's Sky finally releases....

[Wingflier]

Looks like No Man's Sky is hemorrhaging profits, as not only has most of the playerbase already quit, but now people are apparently seeking refunds in mass numbers through Amazon, Sony, Valve and anywhere else they can get it.

It also has the worst reviews on Steam of any AAA game I've ever seen, by far. Apparently the refund requests have become so numerous that Valve has put an orange disclaimer on the Store page of NMS to warn people that the won't be able to get a refund for any reason except the normal rules (Less than 2 hours of playtime within the first 2 weeks).

Pretty brutal.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/1550619/no-mans-sky-players-are-putting-refund-policies-to-the-test

[Toranth]

Looks like No Man's Sky is hemorrhaging profits, as not only has most of the playerbase already quit, but now people are apparently seeking refunds in mass numbers through Amazon, Sony, Valve and anywhere else they can get it.

It also has the worst reviews on Steam of any AAA game I've ever seen, by far. Apparently the refund requests have become so numerous that Valve has put an orange disclaimer on the Store page of NMS to warn people that the won't be able to get a refund for any reason except the normal rules (Less than 2 hours of playtime within the first 2 weeks).

Pretty brutal.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/1550619/no-mans-sky-players-are-putting-refund-policies-to-the-test

Wow.  Still better ratings than StarForge (but not by much).

I wonder if this will finally break the Refund policies?  They've been amazingly loose and abusive.  And as Chris pointed out, a refund doesn't just mean returning the money.  It also means that the publisher/developer is stuck paying the fees.  This will end up costing them tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars, beyond the millions they aren't getting in sales.  I mean, will Hello Games sue Valve for all those refunds outside of the standard policy?  They might have grounds to do so, and that sounds like a LOT of money being passed around.

[Misery]

I'll be honest, it's frankly really damn stupid to me.  The behavior of these vendors, I mean.

I get the impression that the ACTUAL reason this is even happening is because the vendors think this is good publicity for them.  Like, "Look at this amaaaaazing service we're giving you... our policies are able to fit your needs!  Of COURSE you can refund this!!! See how great we are, AND THEN COME BUY MORE STUFFS!!!11".    Taking advantage of the debacle.  Typical corporate behavior, but it's a bit more ridiculous this time.

I mean, really, how many other "disappointments" has this happened with?   And frankly those other ones are way worse than this, since NMS is NOT a AAA title to begin with.  It's an indie game that Sony shoved into the spotlight in exactly the wrong way while at the same time putting exactly the wrong guy in charge of PR.  That's all it is.   Yet nobody did this sort of crap when, say, Watch Dogs (with it's team of 100+ developers, who should have no excuses, same as every other "didn't come out at all like they showed" AAA game) came out, for instance.  Which may not be the best example, but it's the one that's coming to mind; there are probably other games you can think of that were MUCH worse.   Yet this sort of thing didn't happen until now.   Because the internet didn't flip the funky hell out over it.

Kinda pathetic, really. 

I'll be interested to see the aftermath, though.   What happens with these idiot vendors when the next big AAA game comes out and, SURPRISE SURPRISE, isn't what it was said to be?  People are going to push for refunds like this again, after seeing that it worked this time, so what are these vendors going to do?   That could get pretty entertaining.


Ugh.  Always with this sort of thing happening though, in many varied forms.  I'm glad I don't work in the industry, really.

[chemical_art]

At least watch dogs was a game. And its reviews are a saint compared to NMS

[Misery]

At least watch dogs was a game. And its reviews are a saint compared to NMS

Depends on the definition of "game".   I've seen it, holy hell does it look boring.  It's not one I've played, good grief no, I just used it as an example due to it being the first to come to mind, which is mostly because someone I know was ranting about it recently. 

Not to mention that even a lot of the NMS reviews, well... half the time they don't seem to be reviewing the actual game itself.  They seem to be reviewing the fact that morons thought it'd be something that it isn't, which.... isn't how reviews work.   I mean, seriously, most reviews are "I THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE THIS BUT IT DOESNT INSTEAD IT HAS THIS SO THAT'S DUMB, THIS IS ALL DUMB".   How... how is that a review of the actual completed product?   But that's what I've seen in most of them. 

The only way to find a REAL review of the game is to find one written by someone who didn't give enough of a damn to follow any of the hype whatsoever and thus knew nothing going into it, regardless of wether they end up giving a positive or negative review.   I've only seen a couple like that.

[chemical_art]

The only way to find a REAL review of the game is to find one written by someone who didn't give enough of a damn to follow any of the hype whatsoever and thus knew nothing going into it, regardless of wether they end up giving a positive or negative review.   I've only seen a couple like that.

The same can be said for any movie, restraunt, or frankly any review ever. The corrupt / bias / whatever term you want to call it goes in every industry. Games are not at all unique in that regard.

Regarding the definition of a game, it is important to recognize bias. What you / I think is a game is frankly irrelevant. But the numbers don't lie.

Watch Dogs did far better factually in every way compared to NMS. So I do not consider the comparison warranted. So I do think it is a poor analogy to compare the two, considering they already are far different genres.

[Logorouge]

Despite the monstrous hype machine that surrounded this game and the very noisy fall of said machine, I think I might pick this up on sale in a couple of months. Discovering and naming random creatures on random planets sounds fun to me. (Seems you can still do that offline anyway.) Hopefully many patches will have happened at that point to improve the performance/stability of the game.

[Misery]

The only way to find a REAL review of the game is to find one written by someone who didn't give enough of a damn to follow any of the hype whatsoever and thus knew nothing going into it, regardless of wether they end up giving a positive or negative review.   I've only seen a couple like that.

The same can be said for any movie, restraunt, or frankly any review ever. The corrupt / bias / whatever term you want to call it goes in every industry. Games are not at all unique in that regard.

Regarding the definition of a game, it is important to recognize bias. What you / I think is a game is frankly irrelevant. But the numbers don't lie.

Watch Dogs did far better factually in every way compared to NMS. So I do not consider the comparison warranted. So I do think it is a poor analogy to compare the two, considering they already are far different genres.

It's not the sort of comparison you're thinking of.

Watch Dogs is more of a conceptual comparison; it has absolutely nothing to do with genre, gameplay style, or anything remotely related to any of that, it only has to do with the fact that most were disappointed by it, AND the fact that it absolutely did not live up to what the E3 trailers made it out to be.   I'm too damn lazy to look for a more hated game, due to not caring enough, yet you and I both know there are tons of other examples of this, yet none of them generate refund rule-breaking because there was no giant fiasco.  It still gets my point across:  These vendors are doing this simply because of the fiasco, yet when other games come around (yet again) that cause anger, what'll they do then?  Refuse?  It should be entertaining.   It'll be at it's MOST entertaining when Star Citizen comes out, if that game goes the way I'm entirely expecting it to.

Despite the monstrous hype machine that surrounded this game and the very noisy fall of said machine, I think I might pick this up on sale in a couple of months. Discovering and naming random creatures on random planets sounds fun to me. (Seems you can still do that offline anyway.) Hopefully many patches will have happened at that point to improve the performance/stability of the game.

As long as you're actually aware of what you're getting, as in, not having listened to the hype, then yes, it's pretty good on it's own merits.  Though in a way it's a bit close to Starbound in it's earlier days:  A game that clearly should have had more time before release (can probably thank corporate suits for that, in this case), yet one that has tons of potential. 

But yeah, ignore the hype before making a decision.  Really, those that fell for that have only themselves to blame; you'd think by now people would understand what hype really is, what it does, and what it's motivated by.  I have zero sympathy (but plenty of derision) for those that essentially walked into that wall of chainsaws.  AGAIN. 

[Mánagarmr]

...disclaimer on the Store page of NMS to warn people that the won't be able to get a refund for any reason except the normal rules (Less than 2 hours of playtime within the first 2 weeks).

Steam has always had a refund policy. Even before the 2/2 rule. I know a lot of people are requesting refunds stating false advertising (E3 trailer/hype contra released game).

[Mánagarmr]

Quite frankly, NMS reminds me a lot of Aliens: Colonial Marines and SimCity 5. Both were overhyped, misrepresented and involved blatant lying in their marketing. NMS is no different.

[Misery]

SimCity 5

argh

[crazyroosterman]

with everything that's going on I cant help but feel a little bit sympathetic towards hello games considering the massive amount of hype and expectation that's been piled on them.(which is mostly sonys fault from what I hear although I don't think they helped matters much either)
how was a small team like that who's only other games are the Joe danger series which look honestly a bit basic ever going to meet that?.

[Misery]

with everything that's going on I cant help but feel a little bit sympathetic towards hello games considering the massive amount of hype and expectation that's been piled on them.(which is mostly sonys fault from what I hear although I don't think they helped matters much either)
how was a small team like that who's only other games are the Joe danger series which look honestly a bit basic ever going to meet that?.

They couldn't, simply put.  Which I, at least, knew from the start.  That other people actually believed they'd live up to those impossibilities still baffles me.   Granted, it baffles me EVERY time this happens, but this time was even worse since it's an indie team.

Though, Sony's behavior in all of this REALLY didn't help.   I mean, really, they take a tiny indie team, put them on the biggest pedestal they can find, drown them in expectations.... and that's it?  That's the extent of their involvement?  It seems like they shouldn't have done ANY of that unless they were going to take further steps to help make it work.  But nope!  Corporate suits!   The usual from that sort.

In the end though the truly dumb part is that this'll happen again, and the same idiots will fall for this again, and then complain again, and.... ugh.   What a cycle.

[Wingflier]

with everything that's going on I cant help but feel a little bit sympathetic towards hello games considering the massive amount of hype and expectation that's been piled on them.(which is mostly sonys fault from what I hear although I don't think they helped matters much either)
how was a small team like that who's only other games are the Joe danger series which look honestly a bit basic ever going to meet that?.

I wouldn't feel too bad for them.

This short video contains a list of blatant promises made over and over again which it seems the developer had no intention of keeping. There's not being able to deliver on your features, and then there's intentional false advertising, and I think the gaming community as a whole agrees that this was the definitely a case of the latter, with some people considering legal action against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wsFhv_Kz38

[Misery]

with everything that's going on I cant help but feel a little bit sympathetic towards hello games considering the massive amount of hype and expectation that's been piled on them.(which is mostly sonys fault from what I hear although I don't think they helped matters much either)
how was a small team like that who's only other games are the Joe danger series which look honestly a bit basic ever going to meet that?.

I wouldn't feel too bad for them.

This short video contains a list of blatant promises made over and over again which it seems the developer had no intention of keeping. There's not being able to deliver on your features, and then there's intentional false advertising, and I think the gaming community as a whole agrees that this was the definitely a case of the latter, with some people considering legal action against them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wsFhv_Kz38

Aye, I'm already aware of that.  As per the usual, I actually don't side with the community on this one.

A couple of reasons:

First of all, Sony shouldn't have let Murray speak AT ALL in the first place, the useless dolts.  They take the lead programmer, an overly excited guy who is VERY clearly not used to the spotlight, and also clearly the sort that loves to talk about his projects, and put HIM on the pedestal?  What?  Did they not even THINK that maybe, MAYBE they should choose a bit more carefully?  They're not dealing with an experienced developer here!  These guys had ONE thing before this:  Joe Danger.   That's IT.   What kind of utter blazing morons would make that decision?

Secondly:  Stuff changes fast during development, and ANYTHING can go wrong.  There's a very high chance that quite a lot of the stuff that was promised was, in fact, in the middle of being actually worked on.... or perhaps even completed... when it was talked about. And other things probably absolutely were intended.  But then either was scrapped later.  Why do I say this?  Because I've DONE IT.  Not on purpose, mind you.  But it was something I found was.... easy to have happen.  This with Starward, of course.  There were a couple of times where I'd say "Well okay, this thing's going in there, yep, gonna be cool!" and then like 3 days later:  "Weeeeelp.  That was a dumb move, shouldn't have said that.  This thing looked like it was really going well, but it isn't working at all, it turns out, it screws up this and this and this bit over here, so.... yeah, gotta cut it.".   And we've seen this very thing during the development of Arcen's games without me there to screw it up.  Remember TLF's RTS battle system?  How that went?  I know I remember that...  That RTS battle system wasn't a "lie", that's for sure.  It was genuinely in development, fully intended to be part of the final product, but in the end, it just plain didn't work, so out it went. EVERY developer goes through this one.  ALL of them. It doesn't matter how good the dev in question is, they're GOING to have this happen sometimes. The difference is, you usually don't have some guy on a podium telling the universe about things like that while they're still in a half-complete state.    Not that your typical idiot thinks of any of this, of course.

When you combine these two things together, you get the effect that happened.  Overly excited developer, clearly passionate about the whole thing (but also not the brightest bulb) in a nervous position that he's NOT ready for, placed there by idiot suits who didn't bother to even remotely think of anything that might make this a bad idea, and allowed to talk about upcoming features that weren't actually finished yet, stuff that was intended but not in a position of being "set in stone", or perhaps WERE considered set in stone, but considered so by a very unexperienced developer, meaning that they judged wrong and had to scrap stuff later anyway.   Something tells me this one probably happened more than a few times.

Which is one thing if you've got a huge, super-experienced 120-man dev team, they can get around that stuff and be better about judging it, but this was a new player in the market.  They shouldn't have been talking about upcoming stuff AT ALL.  Or at the very least, Sony should have put someone else in the spotlight, and REGULATED things.  Told them "Speaking about this is OK.  Speaking about this other bit is NOT at all OK, don't even think about doing it". 

And really, what in the bloody hell did anyone expect?  Freaking miracles?  Because that's what it would have taken for a 12-person team to create what the braindead internet thought they would get.  Have people seriously gotten THAT dumb when it comes to big shiny upcoming new things?  ....why do I even ask that?  Of course they have.

Am I saying that Hello Games isn't at fault at all?  Ye gods, no.   They should have thought the entire project through more... I don't mean "doing specific parts right", I mean "should we do this project AT ALL in this form".   All the loopy crap from Sony should have been a massive screaming red light.... hell, Sony's entire presence should have been.   They should have realized "we're not ready for this, sorry, we're not the ones for this job". I mean, really, did they think of that?  Nope.   But moreso, Sony, who has been in the business for a LONG time, should have seen this themselves.  They all screwed up.  All of them.  But for the reasons already explained, and more that I'll not ramble about here (because it'd end up being 5 pages long) I don't buy into that whole "lies" bit at all.

And as always, I seriously have zero sympathy for those that bought into this and ended up believing that they didn't get what they were promised (and again, what they believed they'd get would have required a giant dev team).  No sympathy at all.   Were it up to me, there wouldn't be ANY refunds.  At all.  Just "Welp, maybe you'll learn something this time" instead, followed by a swat to the head.    I personally have been absolutely fine with the game, but then I actually knew what I was getting, and it turned out I wasn't wrong.

But they wont learn anything.  Just wait'll Star Citizen happens.  That's going to make this look like nothing at all; that game (what little there is of it) is practically made entirely of red flags right now and nobody spots it, because they don't want to.  That's not to say it'll necessarily be genuinely bad.  It could actually be fairly good!   But will it live up to what everyone is so completely freaking sure it will?  Holy crap on a stick, no!  Not even close!  It's going to be a WAY bigger margin than this was....  even a huge dev team wont live up to what is already surrounding THAT mess. 

Not to mention all of the problematic releases that will inevitably happen between now and then....



There, that's my "I haven't had my caffeine yet" rant for the day complete.  More sparks than usual since I had to get up early.  I hope nobody got hurt.