Author Topic: About Path of Exile...  (Read 738 times)

Offline Cyborg

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 10:12:15 AM »
I couldn't even get past the first area because I found the attack rhythm and animations awkward.
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Offline Misery

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 10:33:45 AM »
I just don't understand how people can keep playing this game for hundreds of hours. I grew sick of it about 80% through Merciless. I mean, no matter how much you spruce things up with random stuff or awkward rules, it's still the same mindless slaughter of tens of thousands of mobs.

What keeps you guys going?

PS: I absolutely DESPISE the -Elemental resistance penalty these types of games put on you for getting to higher difficulties. That's just artificial difficulty bullshit right there. Kind of like adding 300% HP to enemies. The solution to more difficulty is not making things more spongy or hit harder...

Hm, I suppose what does it is the OTHER stuff about it.  The issue with the game as a whole... and I suppose with the entire genre... is that it can have all of these really interesting and intricate complexities to it; in this case things like the currency/crafting system, the skill tree, the gems, the whole "mapping" and Atlas thing... all stuff like that.  The bits that are the central depth and pull of the game.  But... it then seperates a lot of that from the combat.  Clobbering basic mobs isn't very interesting, which is the entire problem. And even quite a number of fans of the game, like, long-time fans, think so too.  A lot of people don't like what's called the "Clear-speed meta", as I've heard it put.  The thing about the combat though is that it doesn't HAVE to be that way.  When it is good... it's really good.  Dealing with actually dangerous mobs (usually elites of some sort) gets interesting fast (a lot of this happening in the mapping bits).  Bosses are well done.  But that only happens every now and then. Too much time is spent just splattering trash mobs. 

Granted, as some others in the game's community put it, some of the difficulty of the game is up to the player; if they're just going for the super duper meta build, it's going to be all clear-speed and not very exciting; trying out your own builds is where it gets interesting (which is what I'm doing).  Provided of course that your builds get you somewhere.  That does keep things more interesting.  That idea makes me think of something like Isaac (or many games where there are characters to choose from that are of genuinely different power tiers)... if you want any challenge at all in THAT game, you DONT pick Azazel.  The option is there, and it's the best option for those that want to wreck things quick and easy... but it's also the most boring because he's an OP mess.

Of course that doesn't actually stop that fundamental genre problem of "too many trash mobs". 


I, personally, get by it due to the fact that I've gotten really, really used to repetition in games at this point.  All the shmups and roguelikes, I will do the same damn things over and over and over, on the way to the bits that currently put up a fight.  Many genres are like that, too.  Hell, you've got the entire JRPG genre, where combat is usually very easy and very shallow yet is MOST of the actual gameplay, and that genre somehow squeaks by.   I dunno.   I guess you get used to the sheer repetition after awhile, with some things.   Though, it's the complexity of the game mechanics (as in, everything BUT that part) that keep me invested in something like this.  If I want an *immediate* challenge I'll go elsewhere.


But yeah, one way or another even a lot of those that like the game or the genre (as I've heard this for ALL of them) there's definitely too much "busywork" in there.  It's like those random battles in a JRPG... it's an outdated concept that never entirely went away.   I mean, I get that part of the appeal for a game like this is that you get to see your character become stupidly powerful... clobbering entire screens of mobs with one blow can be satisfying that way, knowing that your build brought you to that point.  That's part of it for some people.  But I do think there are ways they could keep the combat CONSTANTLY interesting while never actually removing that feel of "hey my character is really powerful here".  Even the devs at GGG though, the ones behind this game, have said that while they're definitely aware of the issue, they aren't sure yet as to how to deal with it.  Cant blame them, if they make the wrong moves in trying to fix it the fanbase will flip out.


As for the bit about resistance.... eh, I don't mind that part.   What I DO mind is what does end up happening in the late-game due to general screwiness; sure, combat will get interesting sometimes.  BUT, you will also run into mobs that are WAY too freaking dangerous and can kill you in one or two hits.   So that's a problem.  There's ways to deal with it apparently, but it's sure as heck not an ideal setup for enjoyable gameplay.  It's not like the devs cant come up with enemies that use interesting attacks/patterns... but this happens anyway, at least for now.

Online TheVampire100

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2016, 10:34:43 AM »
I just don't understand how people can keep playing this game for hundreds of hours. I grew sick of it about 80% through Merciless. I mean, no matter how much you spruce things up with random stuff or awkward rules, it's still the same mindless slaughter of tens of thousands of mobs.

What keeps you guys going?

PS: I absolutely DESPISE the -Elemental resistance penalty these types of games put on you for getting to higher difficulties. That's just artificial difficulty bullshit right there. Kind of like adding 300% HP to enemies. The solution to more difficulty is not making things more spongy or hit harder...

I answered that question already at the start of the thread before it was even asked.

Hack and Slay games are simply just this: Hack and slay. You kill dozens of enemies endlessy, there is not much of a challenge int here except the bosses.
Compared to traditional rpgs, where you fight smaller groups of monsters at once but these have about your strength values, hack and slay games provide you tons of tons of monsters but everyone dies on one hit. It isn't about how tactical you defeat these monsters, it's simply about customization. Traditional RPGs have normally a very limited set of abilities that fits to their character. Exceptions are The Elder Scrolls and games that are similiar, but these are RARE.
In Hack and slay you can design freely a personal set of skilsl and then kill your monster waves in cool new ways.
This matters of course more in boss fights than with the normal mosnters but the point is, you do it how you like it. This generates a satisfying feeling to the player. He created something for himself and it worked out good. This satisfying feeling is, what people draws towards these games, even if it's actually just mindless creep massacring. It's simply a pschological feeling. This feeling gets even stronger if you defeat bosses with your build because this is where your build actually matters, where you cannot simply win by mashing one button.

I said once i couldn't defeat Merveill, but I could now because I foudn a build that worked for me. This felt really good and put me ina  good mood. That's what you want to achieve with these games. And as logn as it's fun, whats bad about the mindless slashing part?

Another exampel are, how items are handled. They are most of the time randomly generated with different properties, so you are happy if you got one that has good properties. than there are set items that have set properties, these are most of the time the strongest items in the game and very rare. You are happy to get them. Collecting stuff like this is also a good measuremnt for fun in this genre. I LOVE to collect things. Ever since I've been a little shild I have collected all kinds of different things. Marbles, stickers, trading cards, litttle figures. I kept this behaviour when I started to play video games. Games like Super Mario 64 and Banjo-kazooie where highlights in my life because they allowed me to collect tons of useless junk. Abot the theme of junk, Junk Jack is another good example, it has tons of crap you don't need but you want to get anyway.

If you like this genre, you may want to check out "The incredible Adventures of van helsing". It's a good game in this genre and was well praised. There are 3 parts and a definitive version that combines all three parts in one game.


To sum it up: You do your own thing and because of that you get a positive feeling if it works, even if you mindlessy kill tons of enemies. Sometimes it are the simple things you want. I don't need a hardcore strategy game every time.

Offline Misery

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2016, 10:39:33 AM »
To sum it up: You do your own thing and because of that you get a positive feeling if it works, even if you mindlessy kill tons of enemies. Sometimes it are the simple things you want. I don't need a hardcore strategy game every time.


Which is the funky/awkward part of the whole thing, really.

I mean, Path of Exile has this incredible reputation for being super hardcore and really difficult, and to an extent, this is true.

.....But then it has all these sections with the screen-flattening that feel ripped out of a "casual" game, much as I hate using that stupid term.   It really clashes badly.  I'd really love to see them find a way to deal with that.

Online TheVampire100

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2016, 12:14:01 PM »
Its actualyl the same with Hero Siege. They try to tweak and balance the game regulary, so you don't oneshot every boss you come across.
Yesterday I died multiple times to the Grim Reaper because he now has an entirely new attack pattern and I wasn't prepared for this.

Except that it still is "kill all stuff with powerful spells in seconds".

Offline Pepisolo

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 01:12:57 PM »
Quote
I just don't understand how people can keep playing this game for hundreds of hours. I grew sick of it about 80% through Merciless. I mean, no matter how much you spruce things up with random stuff or awkward rules, it's still the same mindless slaughter of tens of thousands of mobs.

What keeps you guys going?

It's interesting how I have 479 hours in the game and had only just gone through the first few areas of Merciless before quitting -- not due to boredom, but other reasons -- but you cleared nearly 80% of Merciless and presumably hadn't played for nearly the same amount of time. This may partly be due to the approach myself and a friend used to take when playing, which was a Hardcore no grinding, no trading, no research ahead of time, no portaling on bosses style, which presumably made the game a lot more rippy, so we would die a fair bit and restart. Of course, it may just be that we suck at this type of game, heh, which is why it took so long for us to get that far. For us, once we hit Cruel mode the game was always pretty exciting. Yeah, you get a load of trash mobs that are pushovers, but you also get a lot of rare mobs, minibosses, bosses, corrupted zones, invaders...those enemy exiles that turn up from time to time. For us there was danger around every corner. It's kind of hard to get bored when you have to be switched on and in survival mode most of the time.

The flexibility that PoE gives in creating new builds is insane. A lot of my time was spent just tweaking my setup, trying out new combinations of gems, skill setups, experimenting to try and give myself that extra bit of survivability and versatility. I would go for a lot of On Stun or On Damage taken setups, so that I had emergency systems kicking in if things started going wrong. My last character could share my Endurance charges with allies, and I had a Vaal Discipline that I barely ever got to use, but the one time I did it was a critical moment that probably prevented a rip, which was awesome.

So, yeah, really it's just the enjoyment of being thrown into a dangerous world, but surviving for as long as possible through creativity, skill, planning, tactics, cooperation, luck, knowledge etc. I do find all of these types of game quite boring unless I'm playing on Hardcore/Permadeath mode, though.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 04:58:03 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I do like a lot of Path of Exile does. Currency system, skill system, elites and whatnot. But by the end of Merciless you either blow mobs up by the bajillions, or you die to a wayward hit from a single enemy. It doesn't leave a lot of room for interesting combat. It's mostly just "spam this skill until everything is dead" and hope to god nothing dangerous shows up. If it does, throw everything you have at it and hope it dies before you.

In short, for being so repetitive, it has too little nuance and strategy. That's what makes it so mind boggingly boring to me. Compare it to a roguelike, which you will play hundreds and hundreds of times. But there every single move is a tactical decision (aside from simply moving through an empty level). That, to me, makes it interesting. PoE is far too fast and volatile to have that kind of interest.

Blowing up 40 mobs in an instant with Essence Drain is enjoying only so long...
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: About Path of Exile...
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2016, 07:10:23 PM »
I just don't understand how people can keep playing this game for hundreds of hours. I grew sick of it about 80% through Merciless. I mean, no matter how much you spruce things up with random stuff or awkward rules, it's still the same mindless slaughter of tens of thousands of mobs.

What keeps you guys going?
Friends to play with. I've noticed I stick with a league much longer if I have someone to play with than if I'm just going at it solo.

Also, trying new builds all the time. I've got a lv 57 Power Siphon wander (with Vaal PS and kinetic blast for aoe and backup aoe respectively) right now, for example.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 07:12:58 PM by Aklyon »