Author Topic: A side-by-side comparison of the F2P model for the top 5 card games  (Read 583 times)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: A side-by-side comparison of the F2P model for the top 5 card games
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2017, 08:43:58 AM »
Maybe it's me but I just like how Elder Scrolls *functions* and looks and feels and I can never, ever go back to HS or Eternity because of this. In TES you can build really interesting synergy decks that can easily beat any so called "meta" deck that is ranked high (ranking matters zero in this game, luck of draw is far more important when you got 50 actual usable cards and 3 of a kind instead of 2 (HS).

And in HS it would take you what, 600 wins to unlock all of the expansions.... it's far easier to ignore that nonsense and craft a good deck for whatever lichking lord you unlock (in the prologue of that expansion) that way you can easily get to rank 10, but after that it will be a hard sad grind.

I also play a bit of Gwent every now and then and I have to admit I have a stronk dislike for this one because it isn't a skill game at all. You don't win because of a good play, you win because your opponent didn't have the card (nor could he ever hope to craft it with these laughable rewards) to beat yours when it mattered.... specifically that they added more of the "staying" creatures and made lane choice so wide for creatures (and changed what FOG does) robbed the game nearly entirely of any tactical challenge that it actually had in Witcher 3.

The joke is HS is extremely generous compared to Gwent. De-summoning a legendary gives you 400 dust in HS, enough to craft the commons and rares your deck needs to be good. While in Gwent, you only get 6 cards for 100 ore, and you only get 15 ore per "round" win. But is misleading because you can be losing a match (right from the start!) and not know that until the 3rd round. And rounds in Gwent take substantially longer. Also the reward scheme is after 6 round wins segmenting into 12 steps so you only get 15 ore for 2 round wins, meaning if you lose you are looking at 30m for 15 ore.

And unless I am blind, Gwent has neither daily login bonus nor a quest system...  so why would I play it daily?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 08:52:41 AM by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: A side-by-side comparison of the F2P model for the top 5 card games
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2017, 10:58:47 AM »
I think you guys need to do a little more research on these rewards systems before you draw these sweeping conclusions about them.

Gwent actually has an amazing rewards system, if utilized correctly. It rewards the player on 4 different levels, just for playing the game in the most popular mode (constructed). In this way I like it better than many of the alternatives which typically force you to play some other mode in order to collect materials.

For example, in Eternal you have to play Draft to get the most out of your gold. In Elder Scrolls: Legends, you have to play Arena to get the most out of it. Duelyst and HS is the same way, etc. etc.

Gwent is the first card game I've played that doesn't force you to play other modes to get the best rewards. You can just play the damn game and it gives you everything you need.

So as you can see here, Gwent rewards you on 4 different levels just for playing the game in Ranked. Daily rewards, Level Rewards, Rank Rewards, and Season Rewards.

Daily rewards are based on how many rounds you won in a single day. Level Rewards are based on your total time played (essentially). Rank Rewards are instant rewards based on your progress climbing the ladder. Season Rewards are based on your final ladder position at the end of the Season.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Yes, if you look closely at those screenshots I have nearly 10 card packs worth of resources I haven't even opened yet because the game is flooding me with rewards for climbing the ladder. It's easily the most intuitive and easily accessible rewards system of any card game I've played so far.

That doesn't mean it's the most generous though. Eternal I think is still the most generous by far, but Eternal's rewards require a fair bit of grinding to fully utilize. Gwent is the only card game I've ever played that requires literally no grinding at all. Play the main mode, win games, ? ? ? profit.

Within only a few days of playing I crafted this top 50 Ranked Monsters deck that I've been having a ton of fun with. But the way this system works is that it has a 'snowball' effect. Once you craft your first decent (in other words competitive) deck, then you climb ladder consistently which showers you with rewards allowing you to retroactively go back and experiment a lot more with your own creations.

Anyway, I've always had a knack for understanding systems. Sometimes you just have to do a little research to get the most out of them.
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: A side-by-side comparison of the F2P model for the top 5 card games
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 02:07:31 PM »
I think you guys need to do a little more research on these rewards systems before you draw these sweeping conclusions about them.
When I hear this, I just think "Why should I take extra research to look up a reward system when other games make it more straightforward?"
Honestly, this is just bad design, if this is not written on the paper how reards work or what the most effective way is to gain rewards.
When I look at Eternal, I can see that rnaked ranked gives me chests, draft gives me cards and gauntlet gives me also... chests? Well, Eternal has some inconstancy int heir rewards but you know that at least you get some... chests which give you... stuff.
Hoenstly, they could be more straightforward with their rewards, the whole "you get chests and the chests might contain other chests" is a little to random for my taste.
Then I look at Duel of Summoners, where they write exactly on the pack what the chance for each individual card is to appear in the pack. I know not every developer might want that inside in their drop rates and stuff but I think Duel of the Summoners is the most honest one out there regarding their rward system.
But besides packs it's also random as hell, you have quests, then you have daily challenges, you have this roulette thing after each win you have arenas, you have story mode... the list just goes on. And the rewards are, while always gems, so randomly decided. It's easy to get your gems for a pack each day but a little more regularity wouldn't hurt the game.

Plants vs Zombies Heroes, which is currently my favourite one, is probably the most straightforward one. You get quests, which give 10 gems each day and you get gems for ranks in ranked matchmaking. Once you reach a new rank (5 wins), you get a gem reward depending on the rank you reached. if you reach a new league, you also get a big bonus (and the league defines your reward at the end of the season).
At the end of the season you get packs (not gems) depending on where you ranked, diamond rank (which is easy to reach) can give you 10 packs.
Additonally victories give you points that contribute to the weekly event card 8each week a new card is released) and if you get 1200, you get this card. Playing the daily challenge gives bonus points and playing with specific heroes gives also bonus points. Sounds actually more chaotic than it actually is, basically, ranked matches give you gems, season ranking gives you packs and normal wins give you event points.

With the third set recently released, the game offers now more variation than before, moving foward to more tactical aproaches. It will never reach the depth of Eternal or maybe even TESL but it has already surpassed Hearthstone (in my opinion) and of course Gwent. This is of course agueable, I bet people would disagree on this.

As for the new set, it's main theme are primeval times with dinosaurs and orimitve plants/zombies. New gameplay elemets include evolution (play on another creature, get an extra effect) and fusion (play this first, play another creature on it, get teh effects from it). Dinosaurs activate hteir effects whenever a card is drawn, included from summons.

Whiel we're at new sets, Duel Links (yugioh) released also a new mini set, mainly machine themed cards but also some magician cards. I got 500 gems free (which translates to 10 packs) for the release of the new set. I honestly cannt remember, what cards I got though, Yugioh has too many cards and when I build my decks, I don't look from which set they are. The game also introduced a new event game mode which is... not very good or fun. Basically, when you win matches, you get dice pieces and you can use thes epieces to roll a die at soem weird boardgame, at soem points you have to stop (regardless of your score) and fight an ai opponent, for wins you get coins which you can use for special event chests. The chests contain cards and keys, I believe some crafting resources as well but I got only keys and cards so far.
I cannot even tell if the rewards are worth the investment in this event.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: A side-by-side comparison of the F2P model for the top 5 card games
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2017, 06:26:35 PM »
I think you guys need to do a little more research on these rewards systems before you draw these sweeping conclusions about them.

Gwent actually has an amazing rewards system, if utilized correctly. It rewards the player on 4 different levels, just for playing the game in the most popular mode (constructed). In this way I like it better than many of the alternatives which typically force you to play some other mode in order to collect materials.

For example, in Eternal you have to play Draft to get the most out of your gold. In Elder Scrolls: Legends, you have to play Arena to get the most out of it. Duelyst and HS is the same way, etc. etc.

Gwent is the first card game I've played that doesn't force you to play other modes to get the best rewards. You can just play the damn game and it gives you everything you need.

So as you can see here, Gwent rewards you on 4 different levels just for playing the game in Ranked. Daily rewards, Level Rewards, Rank Rewards, and Season Rewards.

Daily rewards are based on how many rounds you won in a single day. Level Rewards are based on your total time played (essentially). Rank Rewards are instant rewards based on your progress climbing the ladder. Season Rewards are based on your final ladder position at the end of the Season.

Spoiler for Hidden:

Yes, if you look closely at those screenshots I have nearly 10 card packs worth of resources I haven't even opened yet because the game is flooding me with rewards for climbing the ladder. It's easily the most intuitive and easily accessible rewards system of any card game I've played so far.

That doesn't mean it's the most generous though. Eternal I think is still the most generous by far, but Eternal's rewards require a fair bit of grinding to fully utilize. Gwent is the only card game I've ever played that requires literally no grinding at all. Play the main mode, win games, ? ? ? profit.

Within only a few days of playing I crafted this top 50 Ranked Monsters deck that I've been having a ton of fun with. But the way this system works is that it has a 'snowball' effect. Once you craft your first decent (in other words competitive) deck, then you climb ladder consistently which showers you with rewards allowing you to retroactively go back and experiment a lot more with your own creations.

Anyway, I've always had a knack for understanding systems. Sometimes you just have to do a little research to get the most out of them.

No, you have a knack for grinding and probably insane luck.... many hours of it, versus AI to get to level 10, and only then could you ever even get to any of the PnP rewards you described in Gwent. And conversely, after 6 hours !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( I don't think a hundred ! do this boring crap justice) I am level 8 and STILL do not have access to ranked PnP. -> Uninstalled Gwent so really whatever ;)

Also I feel worth mentioning that your deck costs 5000 scrap !! After 6 hours of boring grind against AI I had exactly 125 and could maybe craft 5 cards, if I weren't choosy ! in HS from your first desummoned legendary you can craft 20 common cards and build an actual competitive deck. In Gwent you literally can not even play PnP unless you slog through 8+ hours of AI fights with starter decks against constructed synergy decks (which is about as much fun as it sounds)

So I think you are not looking at this reward system from where it matters, that's from the bottom. Where only level up rewards exist, and they suck as solo motivator for a 6+ hours casual card player. I actually got bored of Gwent before ever even getting to PnP !
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