Author Topic: A Game Of Dwarves  (Read 17149 times)

Offline Cyborg

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 09:13:18 pm »
Kahuna strategy guide:
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13369.0.html

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Planetcracker. Believe it.

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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 04:22:59 am »
I've yet to find anything that trumps DK2, tbh. It had its issues, but it's still vastly superiour to any modern game.

Dwarf Fortress is of course the king, but it's more like Dungeon Keeper on crack and steroids...while banging cheerleaders. Ie, not quite in the same league :P
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2012, 06:15:00 am »
I've yet to find anything that trumps DK2, tbh. It had its issues, but it's still vastly superiour to any modern game.

Dwarf Fortress is of course the king, but it's more like Dungeon Keeper on crack and steroids...while banging cheerleaders. Ie, not quite in the same league :P

If Toady ever makes an interface that doesn't make newbies cry on top of programming away FPS death (THREADS, dammit!  You have multiple THREADS!  Honest!) DF will become a classic game.

Until then, it's merely amazing if you can get past its hurdles.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline zebramatt

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2012, 07:35:50 am »
I've heard nothing but blah things about this game.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2012, 10:17:17 am »
Force has a pretty good video about this game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njBlnDk7om0
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 10:25:55 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline zespri

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2012, 02:23:43 pm »
1) The dwarf AI and sometimes pathfinding is stupid as hell. They go back to get sleep, their hunger goes down, they go to work, arrive, turn around, go back to eat.. their energy goes down.. you get the idea. It is so absurd that you have to cheese with teleport spell all the time. They also only eat to 100 points (the max is 200 points) so if they arrive with 20 they have 120.. which goes down before they arrive their work place. This gets MUCH worse the longer the game goes on, because dwarves also would rather go to a bed 60 screens away than the one right in front of em...

Erm... I'm not quite sure... I've never seen a dwarf going to a bed that is far away if there is a empty one near by that another dwarf already is not going to. May be you just don't have enough beds? Also If you have both beds and tables in enough quantities, the hunger/energy cycle is not really a problem. They eat they sleep they work.


2) The economy is based on mining finite ore which is very very far spread, there are no ore veins, there are chunks (ala native minecraft) and if you think Stone is easy to come by in this game, apparently dwarfs dig through mud here, stone is nearly as rare as money or iron (which is even more rare). Which means it is VERY finite. One wrong step and you are dead. Because if your highest skilled warriors die, you have to restart with level 1 guys that you have to level up, which costs ore and to train them, you need money. The economy has thus a major "dead-end" design flaw.

Well, this just plain and simple resource management. If resources were infinite, what fun would it be? Btw, they do have infinite-ish resource - which is wood - you can grow it and then you can trade it for any other resource. Of course you get it in minuscule numbers, but this is definitely an option.

The problem is mainly that because you have levels like in Dwarf Fortress but a 3d view you only see the walls facing you, that means you can potentially miss 50% of the ore and stuff in the walls because it is not displayed unless you rotate like crazy. This is fine in a game like DF where you had a top-down view, but in a 3d-game this is horrible. Especially because there are no actual in-between floors, to have a floor, you need to literally skip an entire level, and because you can't rotate the camera to look UP you can not tell whether there is anything in the floor above you unless you have the same area dug up from above. You basically end up digging a huge chasm downwards hoping to get any ore, because any complicated tunnel networks mean you have to move your base foward. Which means enemies can get faster there, and destroy things.

This one I mainly agree with. When you start digging multi-layer lairs of any but trivial complexity, it's absolutely impossible to see what is where. You need constantly change view elevation, to understand which part of what you see is on what level. I also had an experience, where I could dig no further down because I dug up a huge chasm, which had a spot if undigium in the middle, and it's a patch surrounded by this undigium that led down. It took some time for me to figure out that I need to build a stairs *UP* - and - to shave off a level above that - otherwise you can't put staits in. Since It's impossible to avtually *see* the level above it, guessing that it needs to be dug out did not come easy.

Also, that a game made in 2012 can not manage to duplicate the great room system of Dungeon Keeper 2 is telling. This game has no room allocation system (which I consider one of the greatest features of both DK2 and DF) neither are there real stockpiles in the sense. This is basically really dumbed down.. worth the 7.50$ if you buy via GMG maybe, but also buggy. The doors in this game currently are broken (don't build em ,p)

Yep, in's not a DF. If you are hardcore, you definitely won;e be pleased. If you are casual you can get some hours of fun. I heard that last levels are 8 hours of play time long or so, one can die by boredom by then I think.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 03:46:10 pm by zespri »

Offline zespri

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 03:03:42 pm »
So yeah, I played a little yesterday.

You are given a "world map" which has a number of levels on it. The levels get available gradually as you finish previous ones.
In the game world you are represented by a prince dwarf, which is, like with any dwarf you do not have direct control over. If prince dies the level is lost and you need to start over.
Each level has a chain of quests or objectives that you must complete in order to finish the level. In addition they are optional quests that give you additional fame (usually x1.5 of what you normally get for completing a level). Fame points can be spent on abilities of your prince, which are fairly generic, such as more starting gold for your settlement, better research speeds, and more formidable military prowess.

In game there is a spawning pool of dwarfs, that to me does not make a lot of story sense. Why would dwarfs spawn from a pool? They make some excuse that it's a teleport to the base settlement, but why the heck more then the population limit can't come through? Anyway. When a dwarf arrives he is professionless and gain levels just for mucking around eating and sleeping. When a profession assigned he start getting experience for performing his professional duties. There are 5 professions to choose from: Builder (build stuff like beds, crops, etc), Digger, Worker (tend crops and gathers food), Researcher (gives research point to spend in tech tree), and Warrior.

Tech tree resets when a level starts and to me it looks quite unimpressive. I wonder would it matter if I don't do any research at all? Perhaps on the later levels it would matter, I don't know.

You can't change a dwarfs profession once selected, but you can banish one dwarf and summon another, of course this new dwarf will start with level one. By the way apart from warriors I could not noticed much difference between low level and high level dwarf.

The game has about 10 different resources, each are supposed to be dug out from surroundings. As such resources are scarce, because mostly underground consists of mud, you get just a bit of this and a bit of that. Because of this it seems digging everything you can think of is essential. You can also plant wood-crop that will generate some "free" wood and you can exchange it for other resources but that would be terribly slow as the rate with which the wood is gathered is not that great and you are limited by fertile soul to plant it (which is also scarce) and by the number of dwarfs that can work it due to population cap.

I'll give the game a couple more levels playtime, but it does feel a bit shallow similar to the feel Settlers 6 gave to me.

What this games gave to me though, is desire to go back to Towns and Gnomoria, which was "too hard to get into, can't be bothered" for me.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 03:07:27 pm by zespri »

Offline zespri

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2012, 03:29:00 pm »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 03:40:57 pm »
Hmm, yea, I may pick it up on a big discount then (gameplay sounds interesting for a few hours, at least), but definitely not something to rush out and get.  Thanks :)
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Offline zespri

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2012, 02:13:48 pm »
Have any one seen this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1438429768/maia ? Looks promising, but as always I'm apprehensive that it's another game that promises so much but deliver....

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2012, 02:36:09 pm »
Have any one seen this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1438429768/maia ? Looks promising, but as always I'm apprehensive that it's another game that promises so much but deliver....
There's been a lot of those lately...Let's just say I recently got burned again, and I'm now not buying a game without testing it first for a very, very long time. Well, Distance being an exception, largely since I played Nitronic Rush until my fingers broke :P
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Offline madcow

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 02:50:04 pm »
It seems relevant to this topic to post that gog.com is having a 60% off sale this weekend for dungeon keeper 1/2 and theme hospital among other games.

Personally thinking of grabbing theme hospital as I've heard about it a lot but never tried it. Can't go wrong at $2 either really.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2012, 02:52:39 pm »
It seems relevant to this topic to post that gog.com is having a 60% off sale this weekend for dungeon keeper 1/2 and theme hospital among other games.

Personally thinking of grabbing theme hospital as I've heard about it a lot but never tried it. Can't go wrong at $2 either really.
As long as I can get DK2 to run on a modern computer, I'd gladly buy it. I've yet to ever find a copy that will run though :( Theme Hospital is actually nice. I never owned it so I never got to play it that much. Only when I visited friends and such, but I remember I did enjoy it.
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Offline madcow

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2012, 03:01:41 pm »
The system reqs on DK2 says windows xp I believe. I don't know how different the gog version is from other versions if it even is. I would hope their games work on modern machines but I've not used them much at all to say.

Offline tigersfan

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Re: A Game Of Dwarves
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2012, 03:17:43 pm »
The GOG page for that game says it will work with XP, Vista and 7. Typically, if a game won't work with Win 7, they will say so.

Also, the forums over there are usually decent places to find out how well a game works with a specific operating system.