Author Topic: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games  (Read 997 times)

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2017, 03:54:47 PM »
And equally, how meaningful to the player. ;)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2017, 05:37:17 PM »
It would be worth some discussion whether developers chain themselves to a chain of certain design decisions for 4X games and combat by spending large sums on art development (shipsets) that they now paid for and that is basically a loss unless they sell the game, and basically HAVE to use now too in some visible prominent way. If you follow this thought true, it would mean that spending large sums on art can potentially chain you to a design you might not actually have wanted. Especially when the spending was decided before the game design was properly prototyped.

It would certainly explain why Stellaris combat is so.. lackluster. Yeah, it looks pretty, REALLY pretty, but it's totally pointless to watch combat in Stellaris.

By the way, Dawn of War 3 still did not sell fundamentally more than 200k copies at full price now that the stats had more time to collect...  and it remains to be seen whether that will translate directly into less support for it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 10:08:13 PM by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2017, 01:51:43 PM »
From what I've heard so far DoW3 was pretty lacklustre.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2017, 06:19:19 PM »
So the elephant in the room of 4x games

Endless Space 2

What I can tell
# Rushed release
  • Carrier ships, but no space-craft to mount, PDS weapons are linked to kinetic slugs only (dual use, basically)
  • Research is missing an entire ring of tech unlocks (including a total lack of tier 4 hull upgrades for ships that clearly had them intended
  • Very very pretty battles that are extremely badly balanced and totally pointless to watch (that's good, but also not
  • Long Range missiles/lasers rule everything, short wave weapons don't usually get into range before blowing up
  • AI does not upgrade ships
  • If you don't want your game to end by turn 70, disable economic victory
  • remember pirates from ES1? Yeah, they are back, and still totally broken
  • Many many bugs
  • Heroes with custom vessels that don't fit any art style

So basically, this game released way too early. I give them massive props for uber art polish, but art doth not make gameplay. And when I say art polish, I mean it, One of the most beautiful looking games right now (space ship wise)

You know what else is funny?
Publisher for Endless Space 2 : SEGA
Publisher for DoW 3 : SEGA

Notice a trend? ;P Is Sega becoming the new EA or Ubisoft?

Whatever the case, this is not the 4x to change the genre to anything worthwhile imo. I do love their presentation and unique races though. But... gameplay wise, this is... not nearly as good as I had hoped. Your fleets are limited to a dozen at most as well, and anything larger the game won't show you at all. Makes sense, models are really complex and exceptionally pretty.

Combat is like this
You select a tactic (difference is some kind of bonus/malus, and which of the 3 lanes maintains which weapon range)
You assign ships to those lanes
They drive along their lanes and shoot and explode at stuff
If a pass-by doesn't result in death (extremely unlikely...) combat is a draw
Guns have arcs and do occlusion check, if your ship has gun in front and enemy is behind.. well yeah, you better have missiles
Some lanes get close some don't. Most things explode before anything ever gets to short range (beams)

Economy is like this
Pop based economy FIDSI (Food, Industry, Dust, Science, Influence...)
More food = faster pop growth, we are talking extremely fast, complete opposite of Stellaris
You build improvements that count for all planets in a solar system, pop can be moved around inside the solar system
FIDI bonuses per pop can be extreme, some systems can have 57 pops, and a +5 Dust modifier on EACH of them + 1 improvement with 1 maintenance for 5 planets is extremely OP. Which is not bad but also not a lot of fun because nothing challenges you;)

Diplomacy is like this
Pressure vs Influence
Pressure allows you to make demands (refusal = war)
Influence is required for any diplomatic action
You got War/Peace/Cold War/Trade Treaty/Science Treaty/Alliance
and that is it. extremely dumbed down diplo.
And yeah, you can trade techs.....

So yeah, not sure what to make of this game... after Stellaris I actually think this is a step back
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 06:42:25 PM by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Dawn of War 3 sales and recent 4x games
« Reply #64 on: May 21, 2017, 02:19:19 AM »
I'm going to just sit here and be smug and think, "I told you ES2 wouldn't be worth it."

Every single problem you highlight is a problem that the first game had. Maybe not as extreme, but it was there.