Arcen Games

Games => In Case Of Emergency, Release Raptor => Topic started by: x4000 on July 28, 2016, 12:36:05 PM

Title: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 28, 2016, 12:36:05 PM
Original: http://arcengames.com/all-right-lets-get-this-over-with-august-17th-is-the-new-release-date/

But I do come bearing gifts, at least.  Hope you enjoy the screenshots!  Additionally, if you want to see what insanity we've been up to lately, then the voluminous release notes might be interesting reading.  They give some pretty good insight into what the delays have been.

ChandelierHall

Here's a TLDR of my four biggest concerns right now:

  1. I want to make sure there's enough content right at launch that people aren't skeptical of how this might develop during early access.

  2. I want to make sure that we're completely positioned well so that I can spend my time adding content in an efficient manner -- DAILY during the week -- and not chasing bugs or whatever other issues that are less exciting to players.

  3. I want this to be as smooth and bug-free an experience as possible, and so I haven't been just going "eh that's good enough" when something is even a little off.  Those "little things" add up when someone is getting a new first impression.

  4. We need to ensure coverage by "new media" to some extent, and that means twitch and youtube folks.  These people are excited about the game in a lot of cases, but there isn't enough in there for them to be making hours-long videos showing off their cool antics.  That's a problem for us, because without that sort of coverage it's too easy to fall into obscurity on launch.


So what has the holdup been, in a nutshell?

Gertrud Apartment

Lighting

Getting lighting just right has been a real passion of mine.  It ties everything together and makes everything feel cohesive and awesome.  It's the most visually distinctive thing about the game in a lot of way, and it makes all the assets it touches look better.

But it comes at a cost!  Specifically a cost on the CPU/GPU.  Most AAA games use "lightmap baking," which basically is a way of having some computers churn out some detailed precomputed data about a level that says what the light should look like at every point.  This process is not remotely realtime: it can take tens of minutes on even a midsize level.  So with procedurally-generated content, you can forget about that sort of thing.

The "deferred shading" pipeline that we use in Raptor is a nice and modern approach that lets us do a lot of cool things with lights, but it doesn't work with traditional antialiasing (but we fortunately have an excellent temporal antialiasing solution in the form of CTAA).  So there's a ton of stuff that we can do that the older "forward" pipeline can't do, and tons of games make use of this (though almost no VR games at the moment, because of the lack of temporal antialiasing in most engines at the moment).

My main challenge was to find the sweet spot between brightness and spread of lights versus the performance cost that incurs.  All lights in deferred shading are "pixel lights," which means that they are way higher fidelity and light based on the pixels they touch rather than the crude way of lighting based on the vertex (yuck).

Aside: it lets us do other cool things like have very low-poly models that have excellent occlusion and normal maps and thus look far more complex than they actually are.  It's another very modern way of pushing a lot of detail to your screen without bogging down your GPU on a bajillion vertices.

Industrial Basement Secret Path

Anyway, the problem with lights in deferred shading is that there is a cost per pixel illuminated by them.  So if you use lights that are too huge, then your performance tanks.  Or if you use too many lights, your performance tanks.  My goal is to have > 60 frames per second on any reasonably-modern GPU with most of the visual settings high up (I'm benchmarking things on a 980M if you're curious), and so finding the lowest light ranges I can while getting the visual effects I want has been a challenge.

Not a technical one per se, but more of an artistic one.  A lot of the way that lighting is handled here has heavily to do with the post-effects pipeline that we're using.  We're rendering in HDR (high dynamic range) in the newer linear lighting pipeline (as opposed to the older gamma one), and so a lot of awesome lighting and depth information is available to us after the initial render of the camera.  This then lets us do a lot of post-work to brighten and tone the scene in ways that you could not do if you were to try doing it in something like photoshop (because you'd be missing that extra key metadata about each pixel).

Dark Building Connector

Anyway.  The point is, it was important to me to really nail that.  I wanted things to be well visible at all times even in the absence of lights (since you can destroy lights), but I wanted dramatic contrast.  I wanted large-range-seeming lights with great quality, but without the performance costs of taking a naive approach to that problem.  I wanted this to still look killer and shadowed even with shadows turned OFF (!?).

Also relevant: I wanted to get all of those things figured out and done in a variety of physical spaces BEFORE we did too much level design, because lights play into level design and I didn't want us to have to go back and re-light everything later.  That would cause a huge delay in content development further down the line, so it's better to spend the time upfront in this case.

I am happy to report complete success on this.  It took me longer than I had anticipated, but it's done, I'm happy with it, it performs great, and I'm sooo glad to be done with it. ;)

BadRaptorGetOffTable

Furniture And Props

We started out just doing our level design with floors and walls and doors and similar, which was a really fun challenge because we had to make each space interesting even without anything in it.  Blue and Brandon and Craig and Misery did a great job on that.

I feel like a lot of games lean on having a boringly-shaped space that is filled with interesting things, and the overall effect is something that is ultimately kind of blander than it should be, if that makes sense.  It's hard to explain, but it's one thing that really bugs me in level design and gives a subconscious feeling of "something isn't right here."

So to start out we stripped away all that, and that's become our standard way of making levels here now.  No furniture or props, just designing the space itself.  If the space isn't interesting without something in it, then it needs more work.

Boy did we have a lot of success with this!  I was super happy with how this was coming along.  And while the level designers were working on the actual physical spaces, I could then focus on those pieces of furniture, props, and so forth that would then populate those spaces and bring them to the next level.

Industrial Basement Miniboss Arena

Well... that took longer than expected.  If you want the whole hoary story, those release notes are probably the best place to do the reading.  Suffice it to say that it is extremely mind-numbing and tedious work getting those ready, but also something that requires a lot of focus because small mistakes echo outward and then require later rework.  So it gets exhausting.

That took longer than expected on my first pass through, and I added a few hundred props and pieces of furniture.  I need to get way more in there, but we're off to a good start for what we need right now.  I had to make sure that everything was fitting in stylistically and had the quality it needed, and in many cases I had to adjust shaders and material properties to do that.  In some cases I put in completely new textures, but in all cases I heavily optimized the textures.  In some cases I adjusted geometry or optimized it.  I made things have physical presence, be destructible in a lot of cases, and so on.

I learned a lot going through that process the first three times, and I have a lot of more times of that in my future for this and other games.  So one of the things I spent some time on was developing out a toolset to make it more automated to do frequent tasks, and to make it less mind-numbing for me.  And to catch the inevitable errors that I make, and in some cases actually auto-fix them.

It's vastly faster for me to add new content of that sort now than it was in the recent past, so that's extremely exciting.  But it did come at some up-front costs of figuring out what the pain points were and then coding custom tools to work around those.

Between Buildings

Aside: Toolchain Development In General

I don't regret that time spent at all, but it has been a learning experience.  With our 2D pipeline we had about 7 years' worth of things that we'd built out to make our lives easier.  In our 3D pipeline I've had to invent a bunch of new tools for us since February.  Some of our 2D-pipeline tools carried over, but a lot of them didn't.  And a whole new set of tools has been needed in the 3D realm.

But I really have no desire to ever go back to 2D pipeline at this point.  I have a long personal history with 3D going back to 1998 (though arguably my personal history with 2D game work goes back to 1991, but still), and personally the only sort of art I'm good at is "technical art."  I can do things like lighting, I can do certain forms of modeling, I have an eye for texture work, etc.  But I can't draw for ****.

Hellooo

In the prospect of a scaled-down Arcen, the actual only path for me where I can do all of the work to a reasonable degree is 3D.  And there are a LOT of things that I always wanted to do in 2D that I couldn't, but that are possible in 3D.  For instance, procedurally-generated ships in AI War, let's say.  In 3D?  Absolutely.  The underlying data and design we could always do, but it visually would not have looked good -- or performed well.  But we can make use of static and dynamic batching in 3D, and do a variety of awesome things to have better visuals meet better performance (paradoxically).

Keith and I have both been thinking about an AI War 2 at this point, but from very different perspectives.  Whether and how the two of us come together to work on that, and how we divide the labor, remains to be seen.  Most likely he would take simulation and AI, I'd take display and networking, and we'd divide interface and procedural generation.  Probably.  I haven't spoken to him at all about this in quite a while, so he might be reading this going "what the heck??" ;)

He has a ton of ideas on how to make the AI and the simulation more efficient and more effective, though, and he has an all-new concept of the GUI in general.  I have a lot of ideas on how to make the visuals both better AND more efficient, and a lot of new knowledge on how to make the GUI more efficient.  I also have some fairly crazy ideas on the networking front that would make the computers less lock-stepped and make use of a wider variety of independent ports and so on.  I think we also both have some nutty ideas relating to multithreading based on things we've learned in SBR and Raptor and so on.

Wow that was a tangent.  Anyway, back about Raptor...

Le Samourai Apartment

Thoughts On Further Slippage

So how do we know that this won't just keep slipping and sliding away into the future indefinitely forever?  That is an excellent question, and to a large extent that's what happened with SBR and why that became such a money sink and caused so many rippling problems into the future of Arcen.  So I'm certainly not blind to the possibility of that sort of thing.

Here's the difference: SBR is complex and requires a lot of moving parts to even determine if it was fun, and we were building all those parts and not finding it as fun as we wanted at any point.  We're getting closer on that now (well, Keith is), but there's a fundamental issue of "finding the fun" there.

With Raptor, that's never been the problem: at a very basic level it has been freaking fun right from the start.  But what has to be done is making it so that you have more than just a tiny bit of content, and that involves both more varied enemies and objectives, and more places to go.  In some respects it is the opposite of the SBR problem, because the fun was there from the start but the content was not.  We've had all the content for SBR for over a year now, but are still trying to find the fun.  That's a strange thing, no?

Unexpected Kitchen Entrance

Anyway.  Where schedule slippage tends to happen is when there are a lot of future work items that need to happen that have an uncertain amount of time to them.  If I estimate wrong on some or all of them, or I don't budget in enough extra time for whatever unseen things come up, then we get slippage.  When there are a fewer number of things, and/or those things are very familiar activities that don't cause strange and new risk (aka, making more apartments to explore doesn't somehow cause the schedule to slip -- but adding a new game mechanic can, because it can introduce new bugs and so forth).

Right now we're getting down to the point where there are a few things that are still uncertain enough that they might blow up on me, but there is a HUGE buffer time this time around.  I'm not pushing back by a day or two this time (after doing that repeatedly).  I'm pushing back by half a month.  I mean business this time, schedule!

And then beyond that there is a fair list of "nice to haves" that we can focus on in the extra time IF there is any.  During that time we can have people testing, twitch and youtube people streaming it, and put out any fires that crop up.  OR if the earlier stuff slips, then that time disappears but the release date hopefully doesn't slip.  That's the plan, anyway.

AnyoneHere

The Current Project Plan

So here's what's going down at the moment:

  1. I'm working on a few last things with doors, and then a few other bugs.

  2. I have to finish the procedural assembly of levels sufficiently for it to use the new content.

  3. Blue and others are working on finishing furnishing their existing level pieces.

  4. I have more robots to get in place, including father brain.

  5. The voice acting needs to be put in place for the robots, and more needs to be recorded for some of the new robots.

  6. There are some secondary mechanics (fuse boxes, fire alarms) that I want to get in place, but it's not dire.  Also elevators that... well, that's a surprise actually.

  7. I want to get more testers in place starting sometime next week so that we can continue to find whatever bugs exist BEFORE we go into early access.

  8. Oh, I need to make a new trailer and screenshots and all that jazz, and update the description stuff for the game.


That's all the stuff that HAS to happen.  Beyond that we should hopefully be able to add more content of various sorts while press and streamers and youtubers are checking it out.  The goal is for that to lead to a smooth launch that then transitions into folks new to Arcen being amazed at how fast we add new content.

Used to waiting weeks or months for major content updates?  Heck, we do that sort of thing every 2-3 days most of the time.

MmmCoffee

But if things aren't tidy enough at launch, then we can't really do that at the same time we're putting out a bunch of unexpected fires.  Let's put out any fires first. ;)

Okay, that's enough rambling, but I figured you folks deserved a reasonably full explanation.  I think that there was more I wanted to say, but I can't remember what it is.

I guess one more thing.  I've been incredibly stressed and that's a whole story in itself, but my son made me a little thing to keep with me today to make me less stressed.  I just thought it was too cool not to share, sorry for being a geeky dad at this point.

The-Anti-Worry-Tongue

It's the anti-worry tongue.  He's six, so I have no idea why exactly it's a tongue.  But he was drawing monsters and I think giving me the tongue of one was some sort of ward?  I didn't get a chance to really fully ask, as he surprised me with it.  I'm not sure if it's the a-w tongue or the new release date, but my stress is down a bit today compared to the last few days, at least. ;)

Cheers!

Chris
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2016, 12:50:28 PM
(http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ChandelierHall.jpg)

That ceiling is huuuge.
Quote
(http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/The-Anti-Worry-Tongue.jpg)

It's the anti-worry tongue.  He's six, so I have no idea why exactly it's a tongue.  But he was drawing monsters and I think giving me the tongue of one was some sort of ward?  I didn't get a chance to really fully ask, as he surprised me with it.  I'm not sure if it's the a-w tongue or the new release date, but my stress is down a bit today compared to the last few days, at least. ;)

I think the idea is that if you're always sticking your tongue out, you can't possibly be worried. :P
So he gave you an artificial tongue to put between your lips so your real tongue doesn't get worn out!
(I made that up and....that's also about as much as I read >..>)
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 28, 2016, 12:53:26 PM
Yep, that's like a grand hall ceiling there: I believe it is... hmm... it is between 7 and 10 meters high.  So around 21 to 30 feet.  Most places are far smaller, but it's fun to have some grand corridors every once in a while.

And yeah on the artificial tongue, that's a good explanation, haha.

I don't expect everybody to read the giant wall of text there.  But I figured that a fun technical dev diary would be interesting as a way to counterbalance the release news at least.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: mrhanman on July 28, 2016, 01:46:15 PM
Is there a reason the raptor itself appears so dark?
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 28, 2016, 02:28:50 PM
Is there a reason the raptor itself appears so dark?

It's the nature of how I tuned the custom shader I created for it.  It's a specular-based PBR shader, and so I'm a little bit at the mercy of the nature of light for much of it.  The problems that I wind up with it are that I can't find a convincing look for it that isn't super glossy or else very whited-out by specular highlights.  Doing non-white specular highlights helps (and that is the case here), but it can lead to some pretty strange coloring if one isn't careful.

I have some rim lighting on it that is a very dark blue, which helps with visibility in dark places and looks like some interesting stylized shadows.  That with the more reddish specular highlights works well when that's all dark, but the lighter you get the more it starts to look strange.  Overall my problem has been that it starts looking either too shiny and reflective (getting processed by SSSR in a way I don't want, partly), or too washed-out.

Now that I think about it, part of the problem is a particular light that travels with the raptor, and I need to set it up to exclude the raptor itself, which might help with some of those things.  But I still don't like the ultra-harsh highlights that happen when illuminated by strong sources like large bright windows.  It's possible I should be using a metallic instead of a specular workflow, but it's easy to get very dull and flat looking next to a vibrant environment doing that -- on this particular texture set, anyhow.  The game itself uses both metallic and specular PBR shaders all over the place, and a few non-PBR self-illuminated shaders (lamp shades look awesome that way).

I have experimented with some skin shaders, but they tend not to look very good for something at this scale and distance.  I've thought about trying some general subsurface-scattering shader options, but I felt like I was using too much time fiddling with that and set it aside.  I'm a little worried about how much translucence might kick in with that anyhow, and I have to performance profile it, etc, etc.

So... long story short, I suppose I should have just said it's a work in process.  But that is the full reason. :)
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Aklyon on July 28, 2016, 04:50:58 PM
In the prospect of a scaled-down Arcen, the actual only path for me where I can do all of the work to a reasonable degree is 3D.  And there are a LOT of things that I always wanted to do in 2D that I couldn't, but that are possible in 3D.  For instance, procedurally-generated ships in AI War, let's say.  In 3D?  Absolutely.  The underlying data and design we could always do, but it visually would not have looked good -- or performed well.  But we can make use of static and dynamic batching in 3D, and do a variety of awesome things to have better visuals meet better performance (paradoxically).


Keith and I have both been thinking about an AI War 2 at this point, but from very different perspectives.  Whether and how the two of us come together to work on that, and how we divide the labor, remains to be seen.  Most likely he would take simulation and AI, I'd take display and networking, and we'd divide interface and procedural generation.  Probably.  I haven't spoken to him at all about this in quite a while, so he might be reading this going "what the heck??" ;)


He has a ton of ideas on how to make the AI and the simulation more efficient and more effective, though, and he has an all-new concept of the GUI in general.  I have a lot of ideas on how to make the visuals both better AND more efficient, and a lot of new knowledge on how to make the GUI more efficient.  I also have some fairly crazy ideas on the networking front that would make the computers less lock-stepped and make use of a wider variety of independent ports and so on.  I think we also both have some nutty ideas relating to multithreading based on things we've learned in SBR and Raptor and so on.


Wow that was a tangent.
But an interesting tangent!

<a href="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-5740" src="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance-1024x576.jpg" alt="Unexpected i am spam Entrance" width="600" />[/url]

This link is 404. Probably due to the word filter.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Toranth on July 28, 2016, 05:21:33 PM
<a href="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-5740" src="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance-1024x576.jpg" alt="Unexpected i am spam Entrance" width="600" />[/url]
This link is 404. Probably due to the word filter.
Yup, the food making place word got replaced here in the forums, but the image loads correctly on the main site's page (http://arcengames.com/all-right-lets-get-this-over-with-august-17th-is-the-new-release-date/).
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 28, 2016, 05:24:56 PM
(http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Between-Buildings-1024x576.jpg)

Does this mean we can destroy thin walls or have some walls simply holes int hem for ambient purpose?

Also, holy shit, the graphics look so cool, the lighting, everything looks amazing. It pays to take more time for polishing before release, even if it is an early access release.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 28, 2016, 07:38:46 PM
Thank you!  Been a lot of hard work on this. :)

You can't tear holes in any walls at the moment, although you can break huge amounts of stuff.  The holes like that are based on how these fit together.  You're actually looking out into an alley there, and across into an adjacent apartment building, where holes have been knocked through both.  In places where it doesn't make sense to have traversal through apartments (sometimes ceilings and floors), we have this sort of ambient destruction that makes things more maze-like and fun.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Dominus Arbitrationis on July 28, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
<a href="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-large wp-image-5740" src="http://arcengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Unexpected-i am spam-Entrance-1024x576.jpg" alt="Unexpected i am spam Entrance" width="600" />[/url]
This link is 404. Probably due to the word filter.
Yup, the food making place word got replaced here in the forums, but the image loads correctly on the main site's page (http://arcengames.com/all-right-lets-get-this-over-with-august-17th-is-the-new-release-date/).

Bah, you're both going crazy. The link works fine (now). :P
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: GiantPotato on July 29, 2016, 12:33:25 AM
That tongue is awesome. Maybe the new release date will happen, or maybe it will slip, or maybe some other unexpected thing will come up. But whatever happens, you have an anti-worry tongue now.

I think kids are smarter than adults.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Captain Jack on July 29, 2016, 01:28:23 AM
Hey guys how's the game com... reads Chris's hyperbole

(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fire_community.gif)

reads the rest of the post

Ah. So... Chris is letting perfectionism lead to feature creep delaying the full release while he makes highly technical changes that he wants to get absolutely right, which is when perfectionism leads to yet more feature creep... Tuesday at Arcen.  :P
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 29, 2016, 10:00:46 AM
I love Donald Glover.  That is all. :)

Well, and this: https://www.amazon.com/Donald-Glover-Weirdo/dp/B0074JOD4E

I really like stand-up comedy, and he's amazing.  The Home Depot story is my favorite, I think, from that album.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Tolc on July 29, 2016, 10:01:36 AM
Concerning new media coverage: https://youtu.be/c_czokEDBzo?t=7346 (https://youtu.be/c_czokEDBzo?t=7346)
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 29, 2016, 10:06:05 AM
Ha!  Wow, nice.  "It's early access, so it'll probably be crappy for a while" is a good reason for the extra perfectionism, etc, though.  :)
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 29, 2016, 10:23:43 AM
To be honest, the general vision of early access games is bad, not from Release Raptor only. That's not your fault and in my opinion this vision is crap anyway. it's this kind of stuck thinking where people take some bad examples and apply it to everything else in the same section.
EA titles have got a lot of bad puzblicity from some very bad developers that handled their games very poorly when releasing in EA. There are a lot of titles that proved different (Starbound, Darkest Dungeon, Sunless Sea) but people see only the bad stuff, never the good stuff. And therefor they immidiatly say "All EA titles are crap when they come out". When Sunless Sea entered EA it was more a finished game than games that are actually labeled "finished". I know people are still sour and salty about titles like Spacebase Df-9 and Starforge but get over it, not everyone handles they're EA titles as bad as these developers.

People shoudl simply view the game itself before talking nonsense like that. seriusly, what kind of idiotism is this?
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 29, 2016, 10:30:28 AM
Oh, I know it has nothing to do with Raptor specifically.  But in order to dodge the stereotype, we have to really be out ahead of it, you know?
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Aklyon on July 29, 2016, 10:45:58 AM
Starbound is...not exactly better than when it was in EA, as far as I've seen, but it hasn't gotten worse either.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 29, 2016, 11:15:51 AM
Starbound hasn't changed that much. People complain a lot about it but seriously, they couldn't have added much more to begin with.
It's always the usual "your design of game does not fit my personal vision of the game" whining. Peopel except the developers do exactly the kind of game they except it to be and not the developers vision. And god forbid if the developers add their own ideas! How could they do such an outrageous act?

Starbound is okay where it is now. Except some bugs and performance issues (for some). Somehow fullscreen does not work for me, that's my only complaint at the moment. I like however that they added a way to make better use of farming with the market system. now you can sell crops in a Harvest Moon-like system.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Tolc on July 29, 2016, 02:54:49 PM
Yeah, well, TB was his cynical self again...probably comes with his job: increased exposure to bad EA games -> more cynicism, rinse and repeat.

I have more hope for Jesse to actually make a video considering his reaction :) And it shows that the premise of the game might get other youtube folks interested as well (if they know that this game exists).
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Aklyon on July 29, 2016, 03:04:06 PM
Starbound hasn't changed that much. People complain a lot about it but seriously, they couldn't have added much more to begin with.
It's always the usual "your design of game does not fit my personal vision of the game" whining. Peopel except the developers do exactly the kind of game they except it to be and not the developers vision. And god forbid if the developers add their own ideas! How could they do such an outrageous act?

Starbound is okay where it is now. Except some bugs and performance issues (for some). Somehow fullscreen does not work for me, that's my only complaint at the moment. I like however that they added a way to make better use of farming with the market system. now you can sell crops in a Harvest Moon-like system.
The generic as all hell new story is the only thing I've heard of that really bothers me. Like, if you're going to have a story at all with multiple race selection, could it at least care who you picked? I don't think carnivorous plant-based aliens and medieval stasis robots would even stick around in the same place as the hoomans just from their description alone.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 29, 2016, 04:17:22 PM
For sure -- I agree I hope it will do well with that sort of crowd. :)
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 29, 2016, 04:56:07 PM
Starbound hasn't changed that much. People complain a lot about it but seriously, they couldn't have added much more to begin with.
It's always the usual "your design of game does not fit my personal vision of the game" whining. Peopel except the developers do exactly the kind of game they except it to be and not the developers vision. And god forbid if the developers add their own ideas! How could they do such an outrageous act?

Starbound is okay where it is now. Except some bugs and performance issues (for some). Somehow fullscreen does not work for me, that's my only complaint at the moment. I like however that they added a way to make better use of farming with the market system. now you can sell crops in a Harvest Moon-like system.
The generic as all hell new story is the only thing I've heard of that really bothers me. Like, if you're going to have a story at all with multiple race selection, could it at least care who you picked? I don't think carnivorous plant-based aliens and medieval stasis robots would even stick around in the same place as the hoomans just from their description alone.

Suff like this bothers me not much. i play Novakids anyway who didn't get any love at all (no Novakid villages, no Novakid lore that was there before the 1.0 update but was for soem reason removed after).

What me bothers however are the stupid scanning missions during the story line. You have to search eternally for a good village and even then you get only a small fragment of what you actually need. the purpose is clear, artifical playing time. it is only in there to keep the player longer int he game than he should.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Misery on July 29, 2016, 10:16:43 PM
Hey guys how's the game com... reads Chris's hyperbole

(http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/fire_community.gif)

reads the rest of the post

Ah. So... Chris is letting perfectionism lead to feature creep delaying the full release while he makes highly technical changes that he wants to get absolutely right, which is when perfectionism leads to yet more feature creep... Tuesday at Arcen.  :P

It's also a matter of general content, really.  There needs to be enough rooms and enemies and things too, dont want the game getting repetitive or anything.

I've only been able to do the rooms so much myself, as my arm went bad again, which is irritating.  Currently helping with what Chris calls "tactical ideas/situations" and coming up with ideas for objects/enemies.  So, I've officially warned you in advance that there might be some devious stuff in here, because hahaha.  I probably shouldnt reveal anything here, so I'm not going to, but I think there's going to be some very interesting and creative rooms full of neat (and murderous) stuff.    I'm blaming the weather.

And yeah, the "Tuesday at Arcen" bit.  That happens alot, doesnt it, with pretty much all these games.  My favorite is still TLF's entire battle system being ripped out and totally replaced.   Twice, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: chemical_art on July 30, 2016, 12:17:41 AM
Keith and I have both been thinking about an AI War 2 at this point, but from very different perspectives.  Whether and how the two of us come together to work on that, and how we divide the labor, remains to be seen.  Most likely he would take simulation and AI, I'd take display and networking, and we'd divide interface and procedural generation.  Probably.  I haven't spoken to him at all about this in quite a while, so he might be reading this going "what the heck??" ;)

I wanted to say I felt as a snake in the grass, but the idiom is the opposite of what I feel. So I feel, like a fox near its foxhole (maybe?), who lately hides but always listening and I say this:

If there was ever a project I would want to be an alpha tester of instead of the very last line of beta testers, this would be the project. It would be a project I would be willing to go into the trenches for week in and week out. I owe it one a personal level. Its soul is where I started this forum, and I would give it my soul.

The heart of participation is there for this potential project.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Pumpkin on July 30, 2016, 05:38:36 AM
Keith and I have both been thinking about an AI War 2 at this point, but from very different perspectives.  Whether and how the two of us come together to work on that, and how we divide the labor, remains to be seen.  Most likely he would take simulation and AI, I'd take display and networking, and we'd divide interface and procedural generation.  Probably.  I haven't spoken to him at all about this in quite a while, so he might be reading this going "what the heck??" ;)

I wanted to say I felt as a snake in the grass, but the idiom is the opposite of what I feel. So I feel, like a fox near its foxhole (maybe?), who lately hides but always listening and I say this:

If there was ever a project I would want to be an alpha tester of instead of the very last line of beta testers, this would be the project. It would be a project I would be willing to go into the trenches for week in and week out. I owe it one a personal level. Its soul is where I started this forum, and I would give it my soul.

The heart of participation is there for this potential project.

Yeah, Chris, you should just drop RR and SBR right now and jump on AIW2. :P

Of course I'm not serious, but I have to admit I can't get truly engaged with SR and RR. Even SBR isn't a think I deeply invested in while the redshirts were jumping in. But AIW... I'm very pleased with how the Freaking VolunteersTM were able to work with SR (Mysery, Pepisolo and the others I forget) and I hope I'll be able to do something like that with AIW2. How lovely it would be to do tweaks and balance and content creation on the very game I can spend hundreds of hours in and around. I can't wait. Sincerely, I do my best, but I can't.

Ah, you shouldn't have talked about AIW2 here. We're already stealing that thread and running far away with it...
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: Cyborg on July 30, 2016, 11:01:30 AM
Keith and I have both been thinking about an AI War 2 at this point, but from very different perspectives.  Whether and how the two of us come together to work on that, and how we divide the labor, remains to be seen.  Most likely he would take simulation and AI, I'd take display and networking, and we'd divide interface and procedural generation.  Probably.  I haven't spoken to him at all about this in quite a while, so he might be reading this going "what the heck??" ;)

I wanted to say I felt as a snake in the grass, but the idiom is the opposite of what I feel. So I feel, like a fox near its foxhole (maybe?), who lately hides but always listening and I say this:

If there was ever a project I would want to be an alpha tester of instead of the very last line of beta testers, this would be the project. It would be a project I would be willing to go into the trenches for week in and week out. I owe it one a personal level. Its soul is where I started this forum, and I would give it my soul.

The heart of participation is there for this potential project.

Nothing but dedication from me for AI war 2.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on July 30, 2016, 11:13:24 AM
It might be interesting as a next project after the Raptor project, I'm not sure.  Depends on where things are with the company at that point on a lot of fronts.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: crazyroosterman on July 30, 2016, 11:14:33 AM
about the pod cast I was pretty glad they noticed that this games coming unlike the others sbr(which to be fair has a massive question mark over its head right so it would have been a waste of time for them to talk about it)
and star ward rogue which they didn't notice when it was about to release or when it did even.
hell I think there still not aware of its existence considering that it got zero mention when rr turned up.

over all though their response was what I expected I imagine tb would be more enthusiastic about this game if he actually played it which of course he (rightfully) won't till its hopefully fully released although
but i was very pleased by jesses reaction to it not that it surprised me to much it really is perfect for him.
Title: Re: All right, let's get this over with: August 17th is the new release date.
Post by: x4000 on August 06, 2016, 10:57:25 AM
Okay, as some folks suggested, the derailment of this thread got so heavy and specific that it was made into its own topic for further discussion: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,18892.0.html

It ought to have better visibility there anyhow.