Author Topic: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis  (Read 3135 times)

Offline Jerebaldo1

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Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« on: June 14, 2012, 01:26:43 PM »
It seems like such a great, orderly way for fans to post bug reports and devs to respond directly to them. I love it and it seems like it would save small teams time in the long run. I've wondered allowed to MinMax and FatShark about whether Mantis may help with their development efforts, but no takers so far  :-\. Is it a pride thing maybe or are there lots better tools for developers who aren't comfortable with having a public bug repository?

Offline tigersfan

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 01:52:10 PM »
I can't speak for other methods, but, I can say that a public Mantis can actually be pretty labor intensive. I spend sometimes several hours every day organizing Mantis. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that I can see why other devs aren't interested in using it.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 01:59:10 PM »
We did the bug-sub-forum thing for quite a while before switching to mantis.  We prefer this, but it's definitely not an obvious decision, there are tradeoffs (workload, cultural impact on discussion, etc).
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 03:45:10 PM »
If you know me then you know I am not a huge fan of mantis, it is in several respects decades behind modern forum software. It looks ugly and the search/filters are sometimes extremely confusing (try finding resolved bugs or suggestions from eons ago). Imo there are mods for SMF that can do what Mantis does much better (not to mention every discussion would be in the same place).

For Arcengames it works because the forums still bleed mainly into Mantis and not vice versa so discussion happens here (mostly), and developer related stuff happens on Mantis. It's acceptable like this, but without a forum discussion culture where devs give more than just "lulz" input (Mecron, anyone?) Mantis would be entirely useless.

Also the Mantis here is not "public", registration = private.
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Offline arcee

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 03:41:30 AM »
one of the many ways Magic Online went downhill was the closing of the public bug tracker (bugzilla).  (it's gotten better in many ways too)

Also the Mantis here is not "public", registration = private.

what would you call it then?  I'd assume "private" means developer-only or internal, and "public" is what Arcen has.  Perhaps "anarchic" for unregistered, but in truth there isn't much difference.  If people want to troll/spam the Mantis I'm pretty sure they can.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 04:41:00 AM »
well you are right.. I guess "private" would be invite only  ;p But tis be semantics. I have actually no idea.. can you read the Mantis here without being logged in? In that case it'd be a public bug-tracker I guess....

Though this does not change why I dislike Mantis ;)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 08:05:05 AM »
Though this does not change why I dislike Mantis ;)
He's sticking to his guns, folks!

Iirc our mantis can be read by anyone, you just need to register to post.  The alternative is probably amusing, but also probably counterproductive ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 03:10:15 PM »
Of course ;P But that said, I can see why developers probably even NEED Mantis to work properly. Just for end-user it is.. a hassle.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 05:45:31 AM »
Of course ;P But that said, I can see why developers probably even NEED Mantis to work properly. Just for end-user it is.. a hassle.

A while ago I got into a debate with management.  It went something like this:

"We need to track our bugs!"
"We need to know what you fix"
"Cool, this does both!"
"We need to know how long you spend fixing your own screwups!"
"Wait, what?
"On a per problem basis, we need to hammer the blame into some poor bastard that QA missed!"
"It's neither's fault, we both missed it!"
"DIE SCMUCK!"
"What."
"DIE SCHMUCK!  We won't be on the carpet for IT's screwup!"
"Errrr... right.

And then most ticket systems were born.

I know Mantis isn't choice, but seriously, from a ticket perspective, it's pretty lightweight.  It allows for issues to be tracked and weighted without the management level histograms that come with stupidity levels of oversight.

Be gentle to the Mantis, not only have I seen worse, management's made us use it.
... and then we'll have cake.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 09:46:00 AM »
"We need to track our bugs!"
"We need to know what you fix"
"Cool, this does both!"
"We need to know how long you spend fixing your own screwups!"
"Wait, what?
"On a per problem basis, we need to hammer the blame into some poor bastard that QA missed!"
"It's neither's fault, we both missed it!"
"DIE SCMUCK!"
"What."
"DIE SCHMUCK!  We won't be on the carpet for IT's screwup!"
"Errrr... right.
I can't tell how many people were involved in the discussion (particularly at the end), but that's probably what it felt like to the participants too :)


Yea, having no "management" layer is a big help.  There's five of us, only two of whom ever touch code, and only one (who is in both groups) has real authority.  Gotta have a leader, but it's so much nicer when the leader's main goal is not maintaining the aft shields.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Jerebaldo1

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 06:34:46 PM »
ah hah, thanks for the insights all; it does makes sense that anything like Mantis has a time cost, and that other devs probably don't yet believe that it's worth it. I think the benefit often overlooked is how much easier it makes waiting for patches. Like Battlegoat Studios, the makers of the only comprehensive global military/eco sim has been silent about the progress on its latest patch for months. I'm waiting on the patch release and feedback to even consider buying that game. Now if I had more regular updates and communication I would already have the game, tis sad!

Offline empodecles

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Re: Wonder why more indie game devs don't use public Mantis
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 03:46:37 PM »
Yea, having no "management" layer is a big help.  There's five of us, only two of whom ever touch code, and only one (who is in both groups) has real authority.  Gotta have a leader, but it's so much nicer when the leader's main goal is not maintaining the aft shields.

LOL Love the aft shields bit!!!
I'm currently stuck using "SmartSheets" because 'management' (non-technical boss...) likes it.
In the past I have used Mantis, On-Time and Gemini in different iterations.
All have their pro's and con's.