Author Topic: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!  (Read 6516 times)

Offline fishy

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Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« on: April 20, 2014, 12:11:54 PM »
You haven't made a true 4x game (with your own twist) that will put all others to shame. Why is that? Super pissed!


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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 12:13:54 PM »
I'm gonna go out and say that I'd also like to see that, although Arcen knows best. Maybe a traditional 4x just isn't their thing? :P
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Offline x4000

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 12:21:23 PM »
It is definitely our sort of thing, I'm not sure why I haven't attempted it yet. Just not quite ready yet, I guess. But it is on my (lengthy) list of things I want to accomplish, though. :)
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 03:42:50 PM »
4x games seem to be cursed. They always tend to end up horrible. See Invasion of the Space Bears (Stardrive) or Endless Space as recent examples.
 
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 04:34:58 PM »
Endless Space wasn't terrible, but it was missing something.

Offline Mick

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 04:47:38 PM »
Endless Space wasn't terrible, but it was missing something.

That word you're looking for is "fun".

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 04:59:44 PM »
Eh, I had fun with it a bit. Didn't really feel like opening it a second time until disharmony came out.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 05:10:12 PM »
No, no, Endless Space was missing all kinds of something. Stardrive didn't miss much, but none of the pieces were connected. And Distant Worlds had all the pieces in place, but they were thoroughly rotten.

My favourite failure is Star Ruler. They at least tried to do something new, utterly unfinished release and horrible post-release development nonwithstanding.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 09:07:49 PM »
If Arcen tries it, it needs to be something completely unique and new. Because as mentioned by others in this thread, the genre is cursed ;/

And if a 4x is considered,  this is gonna need some talking about if it ever gets made. At the very least all 4x games ever made need to be taken into account as examples on what not-to-do ;P And the universe needs to be unique, or at least completely and utterly fleshed out. So many 4x games just make space a boring  "paint stars your color" game.... space in reality is boring, yeah. But nobody is forcing anyone to make space in a game exactly like reality.

Real issues this genre has: lack of immersion and no progression. Problematic end-game and too much micro management. No abstraction for late game micro management, no persistent element across multiple games (roleplaying included) .... and a total and utter lack of FUN beyond the first real completed match. (Endless Space had that problem)
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Offline fishy

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 01:58:36 PM »
It is definitely our sort of thing, I'm not sure why I haven't attempted it yet. Just not quite ready yet, I guess. But it is on my (lengthy) list of things I want to accomplish, though. :)

Looking forward to it, whenever you feel it's right.  :)

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 12:38:28 PM »
No, no, Endless Space was missing all kinds of something. Stardrive didn't miss much, but none of the pieces were connected. And Distant Worlds had all the pieces in place, but they were thoroughly rotten.

Yeah.  This.

And Space Empires was lacking in balance as well as competent AIs (to the point of there being a fan built mod which is pretty much universally used).  It also lacked a large amount of automation.  You couldn't simply focus on the aspects of the 4X genre you enjoyed, letting some AI managers handle the nitty gritty.

SE4 also screwed up a successful research system, making it so you could only research One. Thing. At. A. Time.  Which completely ruined the whole point of devoting 1% research to something expensive as balls, and unlocking it eventually* while most of your points went towards things you wanted immediately.

*Mostly I did this with the environment/colonization tech.  There being enough planets to colonize the ones currently compatible, gaining more compatibility in 200+ turns was sufficient.

Offline Misery

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2014, 11:53:47 PM »
Huh, now that you mention it, it IS hard to find a good game in that genre, isnt it.  There's definitely good ones out there, by my opinion, but not NEARLY as many as there COULD be, for a genre that is pretty popular among PC gamers.

I liked Civ 5 well enough, though the AI leaves alot to be desired.

Fallen Enchantress and it's expansion I like quite a lot, though the learning curve is nasty, and it focuses very heavily on combat, so there's not much in the way of political options.  Fortunately the combat system is excellent, but still.

And recently bought Age of Wonders III, I've yet to fully make a judgement on that one, need more time with it.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2014, 04:22:38 AM »
Civ V.

You bloody heretic.

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Offline orzelek

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 01:04:47 PM »
4X games are one of most difficult to do I think.
AI would be one of the main problems there :)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Hey Arcen, really pissed off with you!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 01:13:30 PM »
Civ V.

You bloody heretic.

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You know, thats reminds me of how the Master of Mana dev is tearing a couple of the more interesting mechanics from V for a future version of the mod.