Author Topic: DRM for online functions  (Read 27627 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 03:02:57 PM »
*ARGBLBERGHLLAHAHA
Thus proving that it wasn't your real name after all: it isn't a Murloc name ;)
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 03:04:52 PM »
*ARGBLBERGHLLAHAHA
Thus proving that it wasn't your real name after all: it isn't a Murloc name ;)
Hahah! Oh god, stop it now, Keith! People are looking at my funnily at work. xD
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 03:13:13 PM »
... as fox said earlier...
*ARGBLBERGHLLAHAHA RABBLE RABBLE!*

Don't use my real name on Internet, you twit. I'm a persona, not a person!

I'm scatterbrained and trying to follow about five conversations today, LEAVE ME ALONE!! Btw fixed so you can fix it in your last post

;)

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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 03:20:54 PM »
Well, it's not like I'm paranoid about my name floating around. It's listed on both Twitter and G+, but I'm thinking most people here have no clue who "Tobias" is :P
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Offline zespri

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 03:45:05 PM »
Well, it's not like I'm paranoid about my name floating around. It's listed on both Twitter and G+, but I'm thinking most people here have no clue who "Tobias" is :P
Oh, but now we do!

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 04:28:02 PM »
I am sorry, did I see ponies being mentioned here somewhere? ;P A pony called Tobias? Scandalicious! ;)
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Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 04:33:06 PM »
I am sorry, did I see ponies being mentioned here somewhere? ;P A pony called Tobias? Scandalicious! ;)

Oh now you've done it. Fox will find you and kill you for that. I once mentioned ponies on a mumble conversation, Fox immediately left and I didn't hear from him for days. One day, I step out of my apartment, get the crap beaten out of me by some Viking (weird I know), call in sick to work, drag my beaten body back to my computer, check my email and see a message saying: don't ever mention ponies again.

;)

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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 06:15:03 PM »
Now you're just exhaggerating, Tim. Oh I'm sorry, King.

I'm no fan of ponies, but I wouldn't beat up a brony just for being a brony ;)
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Offline zespri

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2012, 06:36:21 AM »
So your solution is to give up and do nothing? The system I described works, if you don't think it does, try finding a cracked up-to-date copy of Dominions 3....
This is kind of a bad example. Dominions 3 was last updated a year ago. Of course there is a crack around.

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2012, 06:43:13 AM »
There is no crack for v.3.27 and thus, if you wanted the latest version you would have to buy it. It's the perfect example imo ;P
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Offline zespri

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2012, 06:54:36 AM »
There is no crack for v.3.27 and thus, if you wanted the latest version you would have to buy it. It's the perfect example imo ;P
I'm sure there is  :)

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2012, 09:21:05 AM »
Using a legitimate leaked serial is not exactly a crack ,p If dev cared he could black-list it internally until he gets bored.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2012, 09:55:22 AM »
Using a legitimate leaked serial is not exactly a crack ,p If dev cared he could black-list it internally until he gets bored.
If there's a leaked serial out there, perhaps that explains why there's no crack: why bother? :)

I certainly hope no one wastes time cracking our games, there's just no need.  Obviously I hope they don't pirate it at all, but the idea of someone spending a few hours debugging and modifying the actual binary or something like that... facepalm material.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2012, 11:22:19 AM »
Well this probably won't make you happy but I've seen AVWW pre'd about a minute after it unlocked on steam, same for Tidalis and AI War. Heck you don't even need more than the relevant keygens. And all 3 games can be found online and updated to the latest version.

http://www.nfohump.com/index.php?switchto=nfos&menu=quicknav&item=viewnfo&id=145426
http://www.nfohump.com/index.php?switchto=nfos&menu=quicknav&item=viewnfo&id=191666
http://www.nfohump.com/index.php?switchto=nfos&menu=quicknav&item=viewnfo&id=143446

(That's just links to nfo, not to releases)

All 3 games, with a valid serial generating keygen not just any serial, but a serial that is legitimately part of the pool of serials customers can get, I'd say that warrants some rethinking, no? The lax and insecure serial system in place actually does more damage to legitimate customers (namely when there is a match with a key-genned serial) than it would slow down a pirate. I think there are even batch keygens for all expansions around, but finding those is a bit trickier.

And keith, someone actually did commit the effort to reverse engineer your entire serial algorithm ;) Which is why I think the serial system in place as it is now is BAD and does more damage to customers than it stops piracy, even the most casual one. ,)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: DRM for online functions
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2012, 11:36:51 AM »
Oh, sure, it's not complex.  I wish they'd just use one serial and not have gone to the bother of making a keygen, so that they don't hurt other customers, but they don't really care about what I (or other customers) want anyway.

It does suck that pirates can actually hurt other customers by registering their ill-gotten key on steam, but that's the only harm that is done: inability to register a non-steam-bought copy on steam.  If they really wanted it on steam they could buy it there and have zero chance of not being able to use the full steam features.  And even if they do find that their key has already been registered, steam has proven willing to fix it (by unregistering it for the other person) upon being shown proof-of-purchase, though sometimes mixed signals are sent.

Anyway, there are two very key distinctions of that (real) harm that the present system allows to happen to the customers:
1) The harm does not impact at all the use of the actual product that was purchased:
- the game itself is not impacted at all
- the services of the distributor it was bought from are not impacted at all (if you bought it direct from us and then can't register it on steam that's a different thing: you didn't pay for steam's services, their willingness to register it as if you had is basically just a courtesy to us and to you)
2) The system isn't doing the harm itself.  Pirates are doing the harm, not the software itself.

Every DRM scheme I'm aware of can harm your ability to play or enjoy the actual product you purchased, and that harm is done by the system itself, regardless of what other people do.

So yes: our approach has negatives, but again, I find the net gain to be superior to either no-protection-at-all (just removing the serial requirement altogether) or anything more proactive.  No solution to this problem is going to be without-negatives (grammar teachers are probably on their way to kill me now).
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