Author Topic: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?  (Read 2243 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« on: October 26, 2013, 08:03:07 PM »
Basically:

1) Does Tuck need a buff to be roughly as useful as the other 5 commanders? 

2) If so, is there some additional set of things he could just always see in missions that would suffice? 
- Or does it just need to be some different bonus entirely?



For a while I figured he was fine because I saw a ton of people using basically just him when looking at mantis saves, etc, but more recently the feedback I've heard is that his bonus just doesn't really hold up to the other commander bonuses.  So what's the real story? :)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2013, 08:04:58 PM »
One thing that comes to mind, actually, is having him start the game knowing all the hackable terminal types.  Possibly even have him only get positive terminal effects (it's not like the negative ones will impact him if he knows what they do).
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Offline Misery

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2013, 09:17:10 PM »
I personally find him to be just fine, usually my favorite of the group.  I can get an idea as to where the various recharge stations are, and if there are any, which is useful info as far as planning out what I'm going to do, how much ammo/stealth I can afford to use, stuff like that.   Knowing where the exit is can be helpful as well if things go bad and a quick escape is needed.  I can get an idea as to the shape of the level as well.

The terminal idea might be good though, perhaps, if people arent finding him to be all that good for whatever reason.

As for other things he could see.... hmmm... there isnt really much else that's on any map aside from bots.  See where doors and such are, maybe?  Though I'm not entirely sure how much benefit that'd be. 

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2013, 09:20:48 PM »
As for other things he could see.... hmmm... there isnt really much else that's on any map aside from bots.  See where doors and such are, maybe?  Though I'm not entirely sure how much benefit that'd be.
Possibly his sensors could go through doors that normally block sensors, removing the need to "facecheck" an unknown room (or spend ammo on clearing the door so you sensors can scan).
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Offline Winge

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2013, 09:57:21 PM »
Being able to see the layout of the map (not the tiles, just the walls...if that's even possible) would be one possibility.  Seeing through doors or knowing terminal effects in advance would probably be too strong. 

The only reason I don't care for Tuck is that I typically explore the whole map anyways (gotta kill em all!), making his bonus subpar to me.  Honestly, while I typically wouldn't use him, I don't think he needs to be buffed either--he just doesn't match my playstyle.
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Offline jonasan

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 04:33:28 AM »
Having just finished the game with Tuck I'm feeling the same as Misery on this one - the ability to see from the off exactly what recharge stations are available on the level is very useful for planning your approach to the level. So i'm not sure he needs a buff at all, however if others do...

I think any further boost to his powers on the 'dungeon map' might be overpowered... 'poison terminal' knowledge from the off might start to feel a little cheesy?!

One possibility i can think of that would fit with his 'objective knowledge' skills would be on the city map.... though again this might be overpowered... but what if he could apply his skills to locating what he considered to be the most important objectives on the city map to help against the coming robot attack...

maybe at character selection you got a drop down menu with a choice of selecting one of four possible mission types - robot command centers (-5 days), assasination, lion's den, bahmut upgrade (epic exos) - the locations of your selected 'primary objectives' would be evident on the city map from the beginning helping you to direct your progress towards them.

like i said maybe thats a little too strong but its an idea :)

EDIT: or maybe forget the drop-down menu and just give the city map locations of the epic exo upgrade missions? as getting to these relatively quickly would probably always be most peoples 'primary objective' ?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 05:50:52 AM by jonasan »

Offline zharmad

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 04:55:39 AM »
I find his bonus to be somewhat sub-par, mostly useful for knowing which doors that I don't need to waste points hacking. Since his current toolset is related to hacking, developing Tuck into a hacking specialist.. Here are other possible buffs:

- see inside loot containers.
- all Exos have 2 hacking points base.
- can still hack a terminal/door if he does not have enough points, as long as the exo has 1 point remaining.

Offline nas1m

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2013, 08:05:37 AM »
Although i think tuck is mainly okay the way he is: how about revealing the locations of all Robot Control Centers and bahamut facilities on the City map for him (if feasible)? Would be in tune with his scouting theme and useful without buffing him too much...
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2013, 09:14:24 AM »
Although i think tuck is mainly okay the way he is: how about revealing the locations of all Robot Control Centers and bahamut facilities on the City map for him (if feasible)? Would be in tune with his scouting theme and useful without buffing him too much...
That would be a benefit for him, but I have two issues with it:
1) It horns in on Axis's special ability; not a total overlap of course but closer than I'd like.
2) It means he'd have two very different bonuses (one on the mission map, one on the city map), where all the other commanders are fine with either just one bonus (Axis, Meg, Genji, Rey) or a tight cluster of bonuses that all relate to just a single mechanic (Emma).

At this point I think I'll probably go one of two ways:
a) Not buff him.
or
b) Let his sensors see through sensor-proof doors.

The latter may be somewhat too strong... but probably not; mainly it would save you the time and ammo you'd spend shooting the doors from a distance.  Though sometimes there are cases where shooting the door from range would be impossible or at least require clever use of aoe ammo, etc.  And of course shooting a door alerts anything particularly near it.
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2013, 02:59:50 PM »
The proposed buff sounds good to me.
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Offline zharmad

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2013, 09:12:55 PM »
(b) sounds alright.

Offline Misery

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2013, 12:30:06 AM »
Although i think tuck is mainly okay the way he is: how about revealing the locations of all Robot Control Centers and bahamut facilities on the City map for him (if feasible)? Would be in tune with his scouting theme and useful without buffing him too much...
That would be a benefit for him, but I have two issues with it:
1) It horns in on Axis's special ability; not a total overlap of course but closer than I'd like.
2) It means he'd have two very different bonuses (one on the mission map, one on the city map), where all the other commanders are fine with either just one bonus (Axis, Meg, Genji, Rey) or a tight cluster of bonuses that all relate to just a single mechanic (Emma).

At this point I think I'll probably go one of two ways:
a) Not buff him.
or
b) Let his sensors see through sensor-proof doors.

The latter may be somewhat too strong... but probably not; mainly it would save you the time and ammo you'd spend shooting the doors from a distance.  Though sometimes there are cases where shooting the door from range would be impossible or at least require clever use of aoe ammo, etc.  And of course shooting a door alerts anything particularly near it.

Simply letting them see through doors, I think, would be a bit too strong.  Perhaps instead, let him see through them, but the sensors have a limited range through doors, some sort of hard cap (or the Science Exo will break it anyway and see everything).  Like maybe it only goes a range of 6, max, through any given door.   So it'd give you an idea as to what's beyond there, but you wouldnt instantly know everything about it;  the danger would still be there, but you'd have a bit of an easier time planning what you want to do.

EDIT:  Or it was already done.   I knew that.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:41:04 AM by Misery »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Tuck: To Buff, or Not To Buff?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2013, 01:36:15 AM »
EDIT:  Or it was already done.   I knew that.
Indeed ;)  Though I'm quite happy for feedback on how it actually feels in practice.

Ultimately my question to concerns of OPness is: in what cases is it helping you where you couldn't get the same benefit by just shooting the door?  And in the cases where you could shoot it, are the costs of shooting the door really all that great?
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