Arcen Games

Games => Bionic Dues => Topic started by: Alex Heartnet on August 24, 2014, 04:20:22 AM

Title: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 24, 2014, 04:20:22 AM
Someone needs to do a run through of this with most of these things on (perhaps not the "one exo only" one) on Misery and record it.  Someone that isnt me, specifically.

All sorts of wacky hijinks could result from that.  The potential for hilarity gets higher and higher with each one.  This one would be a good addition to the loopiness that is there so far, so I say go for it.

Here you go! (http://youtu.be/sxBEuuI9yig)

Anyone else up for The Misery Challenge?
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 24, 2014, 08:58:03 AM
Congratulations, you have... wait, not died?

;)

Good work, especially with the pistol and using BombBots to make up for a lack of ammo.


Not sure why that one bomb-bot apparently took both of your Assault's remaining lives.  I'll look into that.


Btw, you start the game with a few parts, and that might have made the first mission a bit easier.

Also, iirc, BombBots literally have no way to attack you except by dying, and they can't self-destruct themselves.  So if it's just a lone BombBot in a part of the map where you don't expect to fight again you can just lure it to a spot you don't need to path through again, pistol it, and go on about your mission.  You don't get its on-death credits or whatever, but at this stage a few credits is less important than the half-belt of machine gun ammo it takes to kill one of those things with an un-upgraded MG.


Anyway, was great fun to watch, thanks for charging headlong into insanity for our amusement!
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 24, 2014, 09:16:53 AM
That was amusing. Ninja is perfect vs BombBots also, since they can't hurt him. Man was that an amazing thing to learn for me. Oh, and Rey's ability is 2 deaths total, not 2 per bot. You can see the counter in the bottom of his portrait. Oh, and that Rocket that made no big explosion...it missed the BombBot by 1 space :( .

Meanwhile I did learn just now that apparently the ScienceExo's pistol is a permanent movement disable. I swear I've read "3 turn disable" but I think that I was just getting the movement disable and Pistol self-EMP merged. Incidentally, given how powerful that pistol is, it probably should be called something besides "Pistol". Pistol does not convey any of its special properties. Pulse Pistol would be okay, especially since at least then if you miss any references to "pistol" it can be assumed to mean the Pulse Pistol. Not that I like Pulse Pistol all that much for a non-energy weapon.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 24, 2014, 08:03:18 PM
Ninja is perfect vs BombBots also, since they can't hurt him. Man was that an amazing thing to learn for me.

Derp wish I would of thought of that while playing then I won't of had to lose my assault exo.  I'll have to keep that in mind!
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 24, 2014, 08:22:58 PM
Ninja is perfect vs BombBots also, since they can't hurt him. Man was that an amazing thing to learn for me.

Derp wish I would of thought of that while playing then I won't of had to lose my assault exo.  I'll have to keep that in mind!
To be honest I'd totally not known that either.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 24, 2014, 10:40:43 PM
It mentions it on the tooltip, not customization. And I missed it even then until someone here mentioned it.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Misery on August 25, 2014, 12:27:35 AM
.....what.

I am seriously lacking a good response to this for a variety of reasons.


And you did indeed not die from this.

This suggests that perhaps it is not cruel enough.  Hmm, it is possible that some of the recent changes to balance may have lowered the difficulty a bit from what this mode was originally meant to have.  As I've been specifically testing Expert, this idea had not occurred to me at all.


Need I come up with more ideas on how to make this more akin to it's proper intended difficulty?  The original list of changes had seemed quite sufficient at the time, but....


Either way, kudos to you for that little performance there.  Very amusing and impressive indeed.

It's also good to see videos of any of the higher difficulty modes being played.  I've looked for good LPs of the game, but all of them that I've found are of Normal difficulty, never really any higher, which isnt very interesting, particularly considering how many skilled strategy gamers there are making videos of such games.  So that just makes the video that much better, it does.  More stuff like this needs to be made, I think.   Heck, even for AI War it's difficult to find good videos of it, which is kinda baffling to me, that game being what it is.  The same thing with Last Federation (either for combat or solar map difficulty, or both) which is another game that seems like it'd really lend itself well to videos of skilled play.  Not to mention that that game in particular could be all sorts of hilarious.

It does occur to me that it'd be bloody stupid for me to not attempt this challenge as well, so I'll see about having a go at this within the next few days, when I'm feeling patient enough to deal with (yell at) the bloody recording software and the headset.   Should be fun.  And probably loud.

I gotta say, all this stuff so far has really re-vitalized the game.  And I"d already spent a really damn silly amount of time with it to begin with, without it getting old, even despite some of the screwball balance problems it had up till now.  Now it's even MORE addictive.   Much thanks, Keith, for taking the time to do all of this.  Arcen as a whole has such great commitment to the games they produce, and that's an impressive and rare fact.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 25, 2014, 01:51:31 AM
.....what.

I am seriously lacking a good response to this for a variety of reasons.

trollface.jpg

And you did indeed not die from this.
Yes, I managed to impress myself.

This suggests that perhaps it is not cruel enough.  Hmm, it is possible that some of the recent changes to balance may have lowered the difficulty a bit from what this mode was originally meant to have.  As I've been specifically testing Expert, this idea had not occurred to me at all.

Quote from: Beta 1.012 Bots Under Assault
Expert and Misery are also unchanged, as it seems from feedback that they were accomplishing their goals.

Need I come up with more ideas on how to make this more akin to it's proper intended difficulty?  The original list of changes had seemed quite sufficient at the time, but...

More conduits?


Either way, kudos to you for that little performance there.  Very amusing and impressive indeed.

Thank you!   :)


It's also good to see videos of any of the higher difficulty modes being played.  I've looked for good LPs of the game, but all of them that I've found are of Normal difficulty, never really any higher, which isnt very interesting, particularly considering how many skilled strategy gamers there are making videos of such games.  So that just makes the video that much better, it does.  More stuff like this needs to be made, I think.   Heck, even for AI War it's difficult to find good videos of it, which is kinda baffling to me, that game being what it is.  The same thing with Last Federation (either for combat or solar map difficulty, or both) which is another game that seems like it'd really lend itself well to videos of skilled play.  Not to mention that that game in particular could be all sorts of hilarious.

+1

]I think most LPers are intimidated by Arcen's offerings.  Bunch of cowards, the whole lot of them.
When I started my AI War 7/7 vanilla AAR I knew that it was nothing compared to the current AAR standards, and poked fun at myself accordingly.  Now I'm confident enough to ratchet up the pain a notch - but I also want to actually complete a game for the sake of completing one.  If I ever do a second AAR i'll be sure to be creative in how I increase the fun factor.


It does occur to me that it'd be bloody stupid for me to not attempt this challenge as well, so I'll see about having a go at this within the next few days, when I'm feeling patient enough to deal with (yell at) the bloody recording software and the headset.   Should be fun.  And probably loud.

At least you won't have to do the hours of editing work that my style requires.

I gotta say, all this stuff so far has really re-vitalized the game.  And I"d already spent a really damn silly amount of time with it to begin with, without it getting old, even despite some of the screwball balance problems it had up till now.  Now it's even MORE addictive.   Much thanks, Keith, for taking the time to do all of this.  Arcen as a whole has such great commitment to the games they produce, and that's an impressive and rare fact.

+11

I must say, 'On Your Toes' was a stroke of genius and is the best thing to happen to the game so far.

-----------------------------------------------------

Seriously guys, try The Misery Challenge for yourselves.  It has been the most enjoyment I have gotten out of the game so far.  You can always bump it back down a notch or five.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: nas1m on August 25, 2014, 03:07:19 AM
Seriously guys, try The Misery Challenge for yourselves.  It has been the most enjoyment I have gotten out of the game so far.  You can always bump it back down a notch or five.
Will do as soon as I (ever) find the time to do it :).
Also I will have to wait for a quiet spot at home, so my wife doesn't think I have gone all nuts - talking to to myself and stuff.

What software did you use for recording/editing your LP?
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Misery on August 25, 2014, 03:37:37 AM

This suggests that perhaps it is not cruel enough.  Hmm, it is possible that some of the recent changes to balance may have lowered the difficulty a bit from what this mode was originally meant to have.  As I've been specifically testing Expert, this idea had not occurred to me at all.

Quote from: Beta 1.012 Bots Under Assault
Expert and Misery are also unchanged, as it seems from feedback that they were accomplishing their goals.

Need I come up with more ideas on how to make this more akin to it's proper intended difficulty?  The original list of changes had seemed quite sufficient at the time, but...

More conduits?



Conduits?  Or do you mean Conducts (or am I just being spacey)?  I'll leave the conducts ideas to the others.  Anything I come up with is likely to be TOO nasty (such as one where you get one second to make a move instead of 5) since I tend to do that.

Which was really supposed to be the case with Misery difficulty originally, without just changing the bot stats (shields on them is high enough, really....).  Things like more tripwires & special bots per floor, item prices in shops increased by a certain percentage, and so on.   

Though it had seemed like possibly a bit too much, and it constantly seemed like I was the only one that actually played on that difficulty level.   The same seems to be the case with that difficulty level in Last Federation's combat, though not quite to the same extent as I've seen at least a few play it on that, just not many.

Still, it's supposed to be brutal, and might need a little boost currently. 
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 25, 2014, 03:52:32 AM
shields on them is high enough, really...

Agreed, this is plunty high, up the !!fun!! factor in other areas instead

Things like more tripwires

Or stuff besides tripwires?  As in, trap variety?  Lower difficulties could benefit from this as well

item prices in shops increased by a certain percentage

It'll be a milestone if I'll actually be able to buy something from the shop on this playthrough.  Also don't forget about Emma and her shopping superpower gotta keep her relevant.  Nah, find some other area to add !!fun!!

Still, it's supposed to be brutal, and might need a little boost currently.

So you want AI War's 10/10 unwinnable doom? >D
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 25, 2014, 04:14:14 AM
Will do as soon as I (ever) find the time to do it :).

Don't procrastinate, just jump right into it!

Also I will have to wait for a quiet spot at home, so my wife doesn't think I have gone all nuts - talking to to myself and stuff.

See, you're having !!fun!! with it already :P

What software did you use for recording/editing your LP?

Bandicam.

Oh, and that Rocket that made no big explosion...it missed the BombBot by 1 space :(

Wait, there was a BombBot?
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 25, 2014, 09:23:37 AM
Surviving the first mission (with three exo deaths) doesn't indicate to me that Misery is too easy ;)  Even in AIW on 10/10 you're supposed to be able to survive the early waves if you know what you're doing.  Also, I'm not aiming at a 10/10 thing with Misery because different games have different levels of "how fun is this to play without hope of winning?" and I suspect Bionic's is lower because you have a lot less margin for failure.  In AIW you can let half the galaxy burn during a major defense and still survive; here you don't get that many fallback positions.

That said, if folks want Misery, or at least Misery+Conducts to be a place where "the achievement isn't winning, the achievement is how long you survive" then I imagine that could be arranged :)

Agreed on not increasing shields on Misery; in fact if they're currently higher than Expert I'd like to bring them back down to Expert's level.  Winning by running the player out of ammo isn't the goal, though it's fine that the player is often driven to expend important ammo earlier than they'd like.

For similar reasons it's best to not increase the overall bot population of missions, since twice the bots has a similar impact as twice the shields on the amount of overall ammo soak.

But we could have it seed a higher-percentage of the higher-PITAR bot types selected for the mission.  And perhaps more special bots like Misery mentioned.  Same count of bots, more pain.  Granted, that does mean a higher total shields on average, but not as dramatically as the above options.

Other than that there are dirty tricks like "Bot In A Closet" with a bot behind an un-scannable door that doesn't open until you enter the room or something like that.  But I'm not sure if that just turns into an "RNG says gg, better luck next game!" situation.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 25, 2014, 09:27:09 AM
Wait, there was a BombBot?
Heh, go to 8:50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxBEuuI9yig&t=8m50s) and watch for the reddish guy with claws. He goes out of LOS on the turn when you launch the rocket. He is the middle of the three red wireframe bot. Actually both the back two are BombBots, so a rocket hitting the first would have set off the second and cleared the entire room :) .
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 25, 2014, 09:44:09 AM
Yea, I found it surprising and amusing how much ammo those BombBots saved you :)
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 25, 2014, 10:40:48 AM
BombBots are excellent. I love when they are on a level. They almost always make it easier. Interestingly, they were some of the worst bots for my initial missions. But once I learned Ninja could ignore them, they got much easier. With Science to disable them and turn them into bot clearing booby traps...I <3 BombBots :) .
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: nas1m on August 25, 2014, 10:57:43 AM
BombBots are excellent. I love when they are on a level. They almost always make it easier. Interestingly, they were some of the worst bots for my initial missions. But once I learned Ninja could ignore them, they got much easier. With Science to disable them and turn them into bot clearing booby traps...I <3 BombBots :) .
I actually think that raising the PITAR of BombBots with difficulty might be a good idea - given how helpful they can be at clearing a level and how relatively harmless they are. I can definitely confirm that having them in an Expert mission gives me a bit of a breather...

As an alternative they could be made into an eligible target for other bots in case the player is within their explosion AOE ;D.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Misery on August 25, 2014, 09:57:21 PM
Surviving the first mission (with three exo deaths) doesn't indicate to me that Misery is too easy ;)  Even in AIW on 10/10 you're supposed to be able to survive the early waves if you know what you're doing.  Also, I'm not aiming at a 10/10 thing with Misery because different games have different levels of "how fun is this to play without hope of winning?" and I suspect Bionic's is lower because you have a lot less margin for failure.  In AIW you can let half the galaxy burn during a major defense and still survive; here you don't get that many fallback positions.

That said, if folks want Misery, or at least Misery+Conducts to be a place where "the achievement isn't winning, the achievement is how long you survive" then I imagine that could be arranged :)

Agreed on not increasing shields on Misery; in fact if they're currently higher than Expert I'd like to bring them back down to Expert's level.  Winning by running the player out of ammo isn't the goal, though it's fine that the player is often driven to expend important ammo earlier than they'd like.

For similar reasons it's best to not increase the overall bot population of missions, since twice the bots has a similar impact as twice the shields on the amount of overall ammo soak.

But we could have it seed a higher-percentage of the higher-PITAR bot types selected for the mission.  And perhaps more special bots like Misery mentioned.  Same count of bots, more pain.  Granted, that does mean a higher total shields on average, but not as dramatically as the above options.

Other than that there are dirty tricks like "Bot In A Closet" with a bot behind an un-scannable door that doesn't open until you enter the room or something like that.  But I'm not sure if that just turns into an "RNG says gg, better luck next game!" situation.

Oh, it's not that the difficulty was too low for a single mission.

It's that it was too low for a single mission plus all the conducts.

Now, granted, this is based on MY definition of difficulty, which I'll admit is a little.... warped.

But still, that's what I meant.


Also, yes, increasing the number of bots altogether wouldnt be good.  For any difficulty, really.  It's just not necessary.   And actual stats on bots dont need increasing.

For the overall difficulty, I wouldnt want this to be the sort of thing where it's definitely unwinnable, like 10/10 for AI Wars is meant to be. But the idea was to make it quite significantly harder than Expert, yet without increasing bot stats (so it doesnt get tedious).  Expert should always seem viable once you've had enough practice and have gotten good at the game.  Misery should be quite the major achievement if you somehow manage to beat it.   That's on the BASE difficulty, mind you, without the conducts.  Those can of course be added later if the player so desires.


Also, the BombBots, I say those need to be a threat to the PLAYER, not to the enemy.  If the player wants to use them in an easy fashion against the enemy, they should require virusing, particularly considering just how much damage they can do to enemy groups;  it makes it very worth the trouble to virus them even if it's quite risky.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 25, 2014, 10:08:00 PM
In a sense not all the conducts were in play, in that the "just take one exo" option could have been pursued as well.  But there, currently, you'd just run into an out-of-ammo wall I think, which isn't really in the spirit of !!fun!! .  Though if I follow-through on the thought of seeding more ammo chests when there's fewer exos...
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 25, 2014, 10:26:36 PM
If you REALLY want to make Misery brutal without increasing stats, you could go the New Game+ route a la Defender's Quest and give each bot a small additional perk on Misery. For example:

BombBots - Now have a range 1 attack.
EagleBots - Do not trigger mines.
HideBots - Not affected by AOE damage if stealthed
DumBots - Have 11 ammo and therefor don't miss their first shot
BatBots - Can fire immediately after moving if they are in range of a target they like
AmmoBots - Are equipped with the best projectile weapon from another bot type in the current mission
etc.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 26, 2014, 03:09:06 AM
The !!fun!! never ends!

Episode 2: "Unremarkable in a fight" (http://youtu.be/YQMCSJsofPU?list=PLaUQGsvGZFvJ_t8Sfnl5ly-kttbqDlKu0)

...Yeah, I've been bored/busy

Tempted to space out video releases, but not my style.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 26, 2014, 10:18:17 AM
If you REALLY want to make Misery brutal without increasing stats, you could go the New Game+ route a la Defender's Quest and give each bot a small additional perk on Misery. For example:

BombBots - Now have a range 1 attack.
EagleBots - Do not trigger mines.
HideBots - Not affected by AOE damage if stealthed
DumBots - Have 11 ammo and therefor don't miss their first shot
BatBots - Can fire immediately after moving if they are in range of a target they like
AmmoBots - Are equipped with the best projectile weapon from another bot type in the current mission
etc.
Yea, that's a good idea in general.  And actually now that I think about it the AmmoBot one would even be feasible with the way the code is written.  Though it might be ludicrously-OP in some cases :)
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Hearteater on August 26, 2014, 12:27:19 PM
You want me to brainstorm the rest so you at least have a starting point?
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 26, 2014, 12:31:40 PM
Sure, I think it's certainly worth pursuing the idea.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: nas1m on August 26, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
Another way to bump difficulty without bumping stats could be to make the bots a little more vicious, e.g. by letting them target fuel tanks or BombBots at the cost of some casualties to catch the player in the AOE of the explosion.

What do you think? 
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: nas1m on August 29, 2014, 02:25:25 PM
I really think we should go ahead, break the usual mold of not adding any achievements that require Misery difficulty and add two achievements for this (the Misery challenge).

1. Challenge Accepted: Win a single mission on Misery with three additional conducts enabled
2. Challenge? What Challenge?: Win the game on Misery with three additional conducts enabled

If Misery is changed to a conduct of its own instead of being a difficulty level (as discussed) the condition could simply change to "with Misery conduct and three other conducts enabled".

If more conducts are added later we could even add MkII etc. variants for this which take 4 etc. conducts into account. Boy, that would be fun :).

In case you are worried about completionists being angry I would propose omitting the second one ;).
The first one should be manageable I think!
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 29, 2014, 06:56:18 PM
The !!fun!! never ends!

Episode 2: "Unremarkable in a fight" (http://youtu.be/YQMCSJsofPU?list=PLaUQGsvGZFvJ_t8Sfnl5ly-kttbqDlKu0)

...Yeah, I've been bored/busy

Tempted to space out video releases, but not my style.
Just watched it; hilarious, thanks :)

The initial part of the actual mission made me tense, and I was just watching a recording.  Some serious testicular fortitude was obviously involved in winning that.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Misery on August 29, 2014, 09:19:04 PM
Agreed, that was hilarious.

Particularly the Dumbot part.

You should totally keep doing these, they're excellent so far.

And you have WAY more patience than I do to keep editing all that text in there. 



On a total side note, an idea that I got while watching this:  A conduct that adds a single MurderBot to spawn somewhere in each mission.  Which of course knows where you are right from the start regardless of where it spawns.   Because !!fun!!, yes?

All these conducts are really amusing.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on August 31, 2014, 08:56:44 AM
Just watched it; hilarious, thanks :)

Agreed, that was hilarious.

You should totally keep doing these, they're excellent so far.

Thank you!   :D

At this point instead of spamming the thread follow my youtube or (preferably) Dailymotion channel.  I got more coming  ;)

Particularly the Dumbot part.

LOL whose idea was that to put the Skybot into the game?

The initial part of the actual mission made me tense, and I was just watching a recording.  Some serious testicular fortitude was obviously involved in winning that.

Apparently some people crack under pressure.  I don't quite get that.  After all, when things get tough the only thing to do is rise to the challenge.

And you have WAY more patience than I do to keep editing all that text in there.

I have a mic but I refuse to use it while recording because I would be too quiet otherwise.  The average person has an attention span of 5 seconds, so it's crucial that I hold their attention.

On a total side note, an idea that I got while watching this:  A conduct that adds a single MurderBot to spawn somewhere in each mission.  Which of course knows where you are right from the start regardless of where it spawns.   Because !!fun!!, yes?

I was thinking somewhere along the same lines, only far less extreme.  On Hard and above perhaps add a boss to each Blockade mission?  The mission would of been entirely too easy if it wasn't for that super high HP Recoilbot.

All these conducts are really amusing.

On Your Toes is a stroke of genius.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on August 31, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
At this point instead of spamming the thread follow my youtube or (preferably) Dailymotion channel.  I got more coming  ;)
Followed on dailymotion :)  Though the video links were far from spam, of course.


Quote
LOL whose idea was that to put the Skybot into the game?
Probably Chris's, possibly Josh's.  It's been long enough that I might just be forgetting my part in the idea.  I don't think any of the voice lines were my idea specifically.  My response to the "I choose you" line was pretty similar to yours.


Quote
Apparently some people crack under pressure.  I don't quite get that.  After all, when things get tough the only thing to do is rise to the challenge.
"Run like a sissy" is a popular alternative.


Quote
I was thinking somewhere along the same lines, only far less extreme.  On Hard and above perhaps add a boss to each Blockade mission?  The mission would of been entirely too easy if it wasn't for that super high HP Recoilbot.
Blockade missions are supposed to be pretty mild, and it tends to plant a number of them near your HQ for that reason.  I think there are some boss/situation combos that might just be flatly "gg" on the first couple missions unless you take Genji+Siege or something like that.

Excellent pick on Rey, btw, his partial circumvention of "Dead Is Dead" is quite effective.  Not that it's any consolation to your Assault Exo.  On re-watching the first video I found that your assault had actually been killed twice (by the same bot) before its fateful encounter with that BombBot.  The number on Rey's portrait in the bottom-left shows how many extra lives are left, and it was reading zero before your assault was set up the bomb.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Misery on August 31, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
I have a mic but I refuse to use it while recording because I would be too quiet otherwise.  The average person has an attention span of 5 seconds, so it's crucial that I hold their attention.

Yeah, that one I can understand.  I'm sitting at negative 5 seconds of attention span here myself, so.... yeah, I've left plenty of videos early, hah.

Quote
I was thinking somewhere along the same lines, only far less extreme.

I actually thought I *was* thinking far less extreme than usual. 

Quote
Apparently some people crack under pressure.  I don't quite get that.  After all, when things get tough the only thing to do is rise to the challenge.

See, now, I wish more people thought this way.  Way too many wont even just crack, they'll just outright avoid any game or whatever that promises to have even a vague chance of causing that pressure.  More people need to actually ATTEMPT things, really.   Granted my own sense of difficulty is a little warped (mostly fond of bullet-hell shmups and roguelikes, both of which I often still classify as "could be harder"), but still.  Even things are are seriously not that dang hard once you at least give it a whirl, most people still just wont even try.   Ugh.   Always has bothered me, always will. 
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 01, 2014, 08:08:29 AM
See, now, I wish more people thought this way.  Way too many wont even just crack, they'll just outright avoid any game or whatever that promises to have even a vague chance of causing that pressure.  More people need to actually ATTEMPT things, really.   Granted my own sense of difficulty is a little warped (mostly fond of bullet-hell shmups and roguelikes, both of which I often still classify as "could be harder"), but still.  Even things are are seriously not that dang hard once you at least give it a whirl, most people still just wont even try.   Ugh.   Always has bothered me, always will.

Difficulty = (likelihood of failure x penalty for failure) + intimidation + irritation + traumitaztion

Where does AI War fit on this?

Likelyhood of Failure = highly variable, usually high, can go up to completely impossible

Penalty for Failure = typical save/load game at any point with save abuse possible, good chance of making the game (almost!) unwinnable

intimidation = Very High, the second most intimidating game I've ever seen.

irritation = variable, usually low

traumization = low.  AI taunts and Cross-Planet Attacks might scare you the first time, but other then that it's a rather chill game.

Assuming a typical game?

(High Difficulty x (average failure penalty + making the game unwinnable) Above-Average failure penalty) + Very High intimidation + low irritation + low traumization = Quite High

ofcourse the !!fun!! can always be increased :P
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 10, 2014, 01:08:27 PM
Just watched Episode 3... man, my condolences ;)  Though you did actually survive.  But future missions... um, yea, ow.  Congratulations on getting that far.
Title: Re: The Misery Challenge
Post by: Alex Heartnet on October 11, 2014, 09:42:59 AM
Closing thoughts:

BomBots.  Need I say more?
Rey does indeed have the cheesiest ability
Pistol OP nerf plz
Assault Exo is still blargh.  Although I'd probably have a better idea of how to balance it if I haven't lost it so soon...
BomBots
There was no way I was going to actually afford to buy anything from Ye Olde RPG Shoppe
Perhaps there should be an achievement for clearing the first level on Misery?  While Misery is indeed too cruel to have normal achivements, completing the first level is very doable.
This game has some varied and very interesting enemies...
And last but not least, BomBots.