Author Topic: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4  (Read 3563 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« on: October 01, 2013, 03:08:47 PM »
Ok, as I mentioned in the other thread we're really in the short rows here in terms of not much time left for 1.0.  But balance changes (at least numbers tweaks, not so much mechanics overhauls) are generally ok for this last phase, so let's keep this going if anyone still has issues with the parts/stats/etc.

For reference here are all the player-side stats:

Weapon-specific:
+%Attack
+%Ammo
+Range
+%Splash-radius

Shield-related:
+Shields
+Regen
+Damage-reduction

Propulsion-related:
+Stealth
+Overload
+Trap-skill

Computer-related:
+Sensors
+Hacking
+Virus
+Mines
+Sentry-turrets

Second-order:
+%Power-generation (exo-wide)
+%Attack (exo-wide)
+%Shield-related-stats (exo-wide)
+%Propulsion-related-stats (exo-wide)
+%Computer-related-stats (exo-wide)

Other:
+Power-generation
+Power-consumption
-Power Cost of other parts in same system


So please let me know which ones still have significant issues in your mind, or if you think it's fine for 1.0 as-is.


Thanks! :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2013, 08:58:47 AM »
Hm, I'm finding most of these things right now to be pretty well balanced.  There arent really any part types that are useless at the moment.  Though I havent really had a chance just yet to see exactly how the new trap-skill affects the damage on sentries and mines as my equipment changes.

Splash radius can get a little loopy for certain very specific weapons.  Yet for others it's just fine.

The Assault Exo is still very, very hard to kill.  Though it's hard to say what that's from;  the random level-up of enemy bots isnt hitting some of the ones that manage to shoot me the most often, so it's kinda hard to get a full idea on how this is working right now.

Other than that, I cant really think of any real issues.  I'd say this is the most balanced the game has been yet, and it's doing pretty darn good.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2013, 12:13:20 PM »
Awesome :)

Yea, I think I'll leave the numbers where they are for 1.0 unless someone has some suggestions.  I could tweak the Assault's +%shields bonus down some more but I think it may benefit from feedback from a wider range of skill levels (everyone here has gotten pretty good at the game by now).  Anyway, we'll see :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 05:28:26 AM »
Hmm, it's not specifically part-related, but I do think the attack values for enemies, at least on Expert, could have the growth rate upped a bit further.  Enemies that should probably be dealing decent damage like the limited-ammo sniper types dont do much even after a few levelups.   In some cases it might be that the base attack power is too low. I havent messed with the new difficulty enough yet to judge it on that one, but it's likely that I'll find the same problem there as I go through it.  I'd like to finish my current playthrough first though.

Also, regen, it seems like it's pretty hard for enemy shots to turn regen-able damage into permanent damage.   I think that's part of why my AssaultExo is nigh invulnerable to anything but heavy attacks (like, at least a couple hundred damage at a time).  That mechanic overall is working nicely, but that's my one issue with it right now.  EDIT:  Not just that though, but enemy attack values arent keeping up well with the rate at which shield values provided by items are going up.  Heck, I've got both a capacitor and a shield item that are providing over 100 shields available in the store, both are blue items.  For how far I am in this playthrough, and where the enemy attacks are currently (even among things that are gaining enough levelups) that's definitely a bit much.


EDIT:  Ok, the bit with the enemy bots, seeing it go further, the problem seems like the bots that have low attack to start with, say 30 or so, they almost dont grow in attack power whatsoever as the game goes on.   Bots that started out with decent attack are getting stronger properly, but for the ones that started low.... well, it leads to things like snipers that do no damage, and stuff like that.  Heck, I've had a few missions that were mostly enemies of that type, where pretty much the entire bot population for the mission could barely even scratch my science exo.

I'll stick with the points I mentioned about the shield items and regen though.

Good grief though, so many numbers.... I dunno how you manage to balance things out in the first place. 
« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 07:47:38 AM by Misery »

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 12:05:24 PM »
Yea, I think when I shifted the player stats away from exponential to a three-linear-stages approach I kind of "disconnected" it from the enemy stat progression.  The enemy progression _will_ still catch up to you, but there will be definite points where the curves are pretty far apart.

Time to rewire the enemy progression :)  Probably not for 0.931 though as Chris is already in the process of releasing that.  So the one after :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline orzelek

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,096
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 04:53:23 PM »
I knew that when you told that there will be no more drastic changes... you were pretending  8)

Progression rewire you say?

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 04:56:53 PM »
I knew that when you told that there will be no more drastic changes... you were pretending  8)

Progression rewire you say?
It's about 30 minutes of math changes, if that :)  The starting and ending stats would be the same, but it would progress faster in the early game and slower in the late game.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Winge

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 601
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 11:14:42 PM »
Still feels like Reactors are a bit too rare.  At the very least, it would be nice to see them in the store more often.  Beyond that, things look pretty good to me.
My other bonus ship is a TARDIS.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 11:19:49 PM »
Still feels like Reactors are a bit too rare.  At the very least, it would be nice to see them in the store more often.  Beyond that, things look pretty good to me.
Well, the store inventory size just got 50% larger recently, which naturally increases the total chance of a reactor.  And recently their seeding rate was increased 25% across the board.  I'm guessing you mean even more than that?

Perhaps I could have them be WAY more likely from Reactor Fab missions.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 12:05:00 AM »
The game does seem to have this tendancy to give mostly overchargers instead of either type of reactor, at least as far as reactor missions go.  I think the last reactor mission I did gave me like 9 overchargers and half of a slave reactor.

Speaking of reactors, I have one to show here, in case it's generated stats are a glitch:



Yeah.... power balance from 12 to 2300 with one mid-game item.  I do have another reactor or two on that Exo, so I can see where the number might be coming from (sort of), but I'd wondered if it was supposed to generate with stats like that.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 12:34:43 AM »
Quote
Speaking of reactors, I have one to show here, in case it's generated stats are a glitch:
Y'all kept saying the rarities should have more of an impact ;)  A mark-10 purple has stats similar to a mark-18 white.  And the slave reactor type has like a 2x to power gen on it, which (dubiously, but intentionally) does not deduct from its item budget for other effects at all.  And you happened to roll a slave reactor that dumped ALL its item budget into +%PowerGeneration.

So basically in the midgame you scored an endgame-quality power component.

But I had been given the impression that most of you found that sort of thing disgusting RNG generosity fun ;)


So to answer the question: it's kind of on the edge of the model, but yes, those numbers aren't a glitch.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 02:10:05 AM »
Oh yes, finding the occaisional rare super-part is indeed satisfying, haha.

Also the enemy bots are scaling much better now, in terms of attack power.  That puts the challenge level pretty much back where it should be.  And their shield levels are good too.

Aint too many problems with the balance right now, not that I can think of anyway.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2013, 02:22:59 AM »
Also the enemy bots are scaling much better now, in terms of attack power.  That puts the challenge level pretty much back where it should be.  And their shield levels are good too.

Aint too many problems with the balance right now, not that I can think of anyway.
I didn't actually change the enemy stat progression at all today, btw, it's on my list but I've not gotten much time on Bionic today.

What may have happened is that you passed from to a stage of the exponential curve that's a bit faster than what you were in (the beginning is glacial), so it's closer to your own exo's tri-linear "curve" :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,108
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 03:06:28 AM »
Aha, I see what you meant in the explanation of how you're going to change it, then.    Indeed it was very glacial before the point where I'm at.

Should make the challenge consistent right from the start then, I assume.  Much better than it getting easier and easier followed by a big difficulty spike.

Offline nas1m

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,257
Re: Part Stats Balance/Polish, Round 4
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
The game does seem to have this tendancy to give mostly overchargers instead of either type of reactor, at least as far as reactor missions go.  I think the last reactor mission I did gave me like 9 overchargers and half of a slave reactor.
Same here. I just did a Reactor Fab mission on Expert (being in *desperate* need of power producers) and got - guess what - 8 overcharges, 0 reactors. This is a little... unfortunate :-\. Is this just the RNG loving me more than usual or could the occurrence chances for actual power producers stand some tweaking?
Craving some more color and variety in your next Bionic run? Grab a boost and a couple of custom floors!