Author Topic: Part Stats Balance, Round 2  (Read 3847 times)

Offline nas1m

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2013, 04:32:53 AM »
I'd be interested to see exactly how you're doing this virusing without stealth bit, because from what I've seen.... it doesnt work.  Not unless the enemy bot has an attack range of exactly 1.

You're mostly correct.  In that situation, you need at least one Stealth (and probably more, since you mentioned a very angry army behind those).

The only way you can virus without tanking damage or using a stealth point is if you can isolate an alerted bot behind cover.  If I get the chance, I'll post a pic.  Obviously, that is very rare; I almost always either take a light hit (if I'm virusing a lower-damage buff bot) or stealth up.  I also almost never virus bots in groups, as neither they nor I last long.  That's a "nuke them from orbit" kind of solution--I <3 rocket launchers!

One possibility for higher difficulties would be to decrease the starting number of stealth actions, and buff the stealth granting items.  Then, what items and strategies the player uses become much more a matter of choice, rather than being able to do everything really well.  Really, this might need to be done anyways--Exos get a lot of starting stealth actions.  I suppose that the number of starting stealth actions could scale with difficulty like shields, although that might be too much.

Thoughts?


I like your idea of having the majority (if i am understanding correctly) of the stealth, or virus points going into the parts and not part of the built in abilities of the exos, and as you say, in that way it becomes a matter of those that use stealth and virus alot, can buff their exos with those parts. While those that feel it is overpowered or a magic button can choose to play without those buff parts.

Nicely analyzed.  :)

I second the motion.
Increasing the need for specialized equipment to be able to pull off many stealth virusing would be a possible way to approach this.

But why not go a step further? If either virus or stealth would be changed to go into the same slot type as the other there would be a direct trade-off: An Exo with multiple items boosting stealth would not be able rack up quite as much in terms of virus points and vice versa.

Thoughts?
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Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2013, 03:14:42 PM »
Just an opinion, but stealth can be used in a number of ways, to avoid crowds of bots, to virus a bot, to get close enough to use an aoe rocket on a group of bots...

However virus is not quite as versatile, it relies on stealth to get close enough, because we can't virus at a distance.

Your suggestion of one imbalancing the other is really to my mind not quite a fair trade off. If you want to limit viruses then fine, give me a limit on the number i can carry in parts or in exo, or in total. Or limit stealth if you feel it achieves some purpose or avoids an OP situation.

But your current suggestion gives me one, but denies the other and handicaps me in the process. Not in a way that is easily solvable in another way, but by denying me the use of either the means to get close enough to virus, or the ability to virus itself.

I just really, really don't see how this balances anything to the player. In fact in my opinion it unbalances it.

Sorry to disagree, but that's what it looks like to me.

-Teal

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 03:16:17 PM by Teal_Blue »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2013, 11:40:38 AM »
So, with 0.920 out now:

1) How do new parts (remember, old save parts are unchanged) with +attack and such feel?

2) How does virus feel?
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Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2013, 03:30:25 PM »
I haven't had a chance to test the virusing process yet, but will give you a holler when i do.  :)

I did run across 2 small issues that i'm going to put into mantis, when accessing a computer terminal i got something, but nothing appeared on the message log, and i don't know what happened. (just a quick add, but all of the terminals gave me negative things this time, though up til now its been mostly good, so maybe its just balancing out)

Second issue is even stealthed, sometimes some bots will see me when i come into range (still 4 or 5 squares out from them)

Thank you for listening,
-Teal


Offline Winge

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2013, 08:47:14 PM »
2) How does virus feel?

The virus numbers on parts seem alright; however, I think the multiplier for virus costs on strong enemies is a bit too high...

Others can feel free to chime in on their opinion of that balance point.
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Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2013, 09:45:32 PM »
It does seem like a lot, but i don't know how many points to carry is normal now. And i am assuming this is the new weighting on the bots that is causing this?

I can understand weighting as some bots are more 'valueable' than others.
But is 110 too high?

If it is,  then what is more reasonable?

How many bots is reasonable to virus in a given game?


casual   -   level 1 bots, no advanced bots                         -  1 to 1 points?               increases by 0
casual   -   level 1 bots, advanced bots                              -  2 to 2 points?
casual   -   level 2 and above bots                                      -  3 to 3 points?
 
easy      -   level 1 bots, no advanced bots                         -  3 to 5 points?              increases by 2
easy      -   level 1 bots, advanced bots                              -  5 to 7 points?
easy      -   level 2 and above bots                                      - 7 to 9 points?

normal   -   level 1 bots, no advanced bots                          - 9  to 12 points?          increases by 3
normal   -   level 1 bots, advanced bots                               - 12 to 15 points?
normal   -   level 2 and above bots?                                     - 15 to 18 points?

hard      -    level 1 bots, no advanced bots                         -  18 to 22 points?           increases by 4
hard      -    level 1 bots, advanced bots                              -  22 to 26 points?
hard      -    level 2 and above bots?                                    -  26 to 30 points?

expert      -    level 1 bots, no advanced bots                       -  30 to 35 points?           increases by 5
expert      -    level 1 bots, advanced bots                            -  35 to 40 points?
expert      -    level 2 and above bots?                                  -  40 to 45 points?

misery      -    level 1 bots, no advanced bots                       -  45 to 51 points?           increases by 6
misery      -    level 1 bots, advanced bots                            -  51 to 57 points?
misery      -    level 2 and above bots?                                  -  57 to 63 points?


Which strikes me as approximately about half what it is now at the highest difficulty.
Does that seem reasonable and workable?

-Teal


p.s.   actually, you know what, i thought i was being helpful trying to figure this out, but to be honest looking at it, i think this weighting this is over my head.

I mean having a whole casual game go through 50 days of missions on a cost of 3 max? Does that sound reasonable or broken?  I don't think i quite got this idea figured out as well as i wanted to.


 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 09:49:53 PM by Teal_Blue »

Offline Tridus

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2013, 09:50:08 PM »
Depending on the bot, I don't think it's necessarily too high. One part can have more than that, before computer stat boosters.

Obviously not for a Dumbot. :)

Offline Teal_Blue

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2013, 09:55:26 PM »
right now i feel  like a dumbot.  :)   time for bed, or a movie and no more number crunching, haha.  :)

-Teal


Offline Misery

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2013, 01:54:00 AM »
So, early experience with the new patch, some of the various stats are muuuuuuch better.  It's possible now for weapon parts to have enough effect to make things like the laser rifle and such be at least decent.   They still wont put out anywhere near the damage potential of the "heavy hitter" weapons, but they can be viable in a fight now.   My assault exo can sort of accomplish things sometimes now  :D

On top of that, I found a sentry part, finally.


Cant say much else yet.  The game has enjoyed giving me mostly weapon and stealth items in the couple of missions I just did.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Part Stats Balance, Round 2
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2013, 11:35:26 AM »
So, early experience with the new patch, some of the various stats are muuuuuuch better.  It's possible now for weapon parts to have enough effect to make things like the laser rifle and such be at least decent.   They still wont put out anywhere near the damage potential of the "heavy hitter" weapons, but they can be viable in a fight now.   My assault exo can sort of accomplish things sometimes now  :D

On top of that, I found a sentry part, finally.
Awesome, glad to hear there's improvement :)

Please let us know if something still doesn't seem right.
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