Arcen Games

Games => Bionic Dues => Topic started by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 02:38:01 PM

Title: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 02:38:01 PM
So, just checking in on how y'all testers feel about the different Commander options.  General feedback is welcome as always, but specifically:

1) Are there any commanders who feel so less useful than the others that you'd never pick them? 

2) Are there any commanders who feel so OP that you'd never pick anyone else?

In general the bonuses are supposed to be ridiculously strong, but without trivializing the game, and that all of them be ridiculously strong so you have a reason to pick any of them.  Though it's also fine if some commanders just not appeal to some players due to playstyle differences, etc.


Personally I wonder about Genji getting the epic upgrade to just 2 exos instead of all 4, since others can overcome that advantage in two missions, but in practice it may be more useful than I think
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Tridus on September 26, 2013, 02:58:43 PM
Doesn't seem that great now that the early game is a bit smoothed out, except on expert I guess, where having some epic level weapons might make a really bad first few days easier.

But getting all four would probably be more in line with stuff like buying legendaries, being able to jump over missions entirely, and Meg's crazy item stat bonus.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: x4000 on September 26, 2013, 03:00:53 PM
Yeah, I agree on that change, too.  I think we should trial it at the very least.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 03:16:27 PM
Ok, the Genji change is in for 0.922 :)

Any of the others feeling weak?

Or just way too strong?
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Tridus on September 26, 2013, 03:27:08 PM
I think Emma and Axis are in a good place.

I'm not 100% clear on how Meg's ability works, which is making it harder to judge. For stats that are percentages themselves, do you get 50% more of that (ie: 30% becomes 45%) or doe sit just add 50? What about ones that have a cap like AoE boosters at 100%, does she affect those if they're already capped?

Haven't played with any of the males, oddly enough. :) That said, the one that gives you a fifth exo seems pretty nice as it's basically a mulligan. You make a mistake and lose an exo, and it just comes back.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 03:32:04 PM
I'm not 100% clear on how Meg's ability works, which is making it harder to judge. For stats that are percentages themselves, do you get 50% more of that (ie: 30% becomes 45%) or doe sit just add 50? What about ones that have a cap like AoE boosters at 100%, does she affect those if they're already capped?
It means that her items have an effective level half again what it would be.  So you when you pick up a MkIV common it's actually got the stats that a MkVI normally would have, etc.  Possibly I could improve the tooltip there.

Quote
That said, the one that gives you a fifth exo seems pretty nice as it's basically a mulligan. You make a mistake and lose an exo, and it just comes back.
Yea, I kinda wonder about that one too.  Not sure I'd ever pick that instead of Axis, Emma, Meg, or Genji.  Perhaps if it gave more than 1 "extra life" per mission?  Or is it already strong enough?
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: khadgar on September 26, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
My favorite commander is the one who lets you see all mission objectives at the outset on radar. I don't particularly care where the objective or loot containers or anything else is, but I like seeing the general shape and size of the level without doing anything. It becomes less useful as sensor range goes up in the later game, but the late game seems to go much faster than the early game for me so I don't notice.

My second favorite commander is one who lets you move 2 spaces on the city map. It more than doubles the available missions to choose from at any given time, and just makes map exploration way simpler.

I've never seriously touched the other commanders, the bonues just don't tickle my fancy. The 50% extra stats one actually seems really good, but it's so intangible as compared to the concrete bonuses of the two previous commanders I mentioned. The only one that doesn't interest me at all the is the one who gets better / more /  cheaper shop items? I hardly ever use the shop so nuts to that.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: nas1m on September 26, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
Quote
That said, the one that gives you a fifth exo seems pretty nice as it's basically a mulligan. You make a mistake and lose an exo, and it just comes back.
Yea, I kinda wonder about that one too.  Not sure I'd ever pick that instead of Axis, Emma, Meg, or Genji.  Perhaps if it gave more than 1 "extra life" per mission?  Or is it already strong enough?
What about letting him keep one (or even two!) additional exos in his roster/team to pick from before embarking on a given mission with four exos handpicked for that occasion. That would give him greater flexibility than any of the other commanders. Now *that* would be a trait to be reckoned with ;D...

PS: The other commanders seem fine to me!
PPS: If screen real estate on the city map is an issue if giving him more than 4 exos to pick from, the city map display could always show the four ones currently picked for the next mission, while the actual picking could be done using the customization view (rotating through one or two extra exos there should be doable I think?).
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
What about letting him keep an (or even two!) additional exos in his roster/team to pick from before embarking on a given mission with four exos handpicked for that occasion. That would give him greater flexibility than any of the other commanders. Now *that* would be a trait to be reckoned with ;D...
I agree that it'd be nice, but the assumptions that "the player has 4 exos" and "all the player's exos are in all missions" are very deeply entrenched in the code, so I'd much rather find another solution :)
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 04:30:37 PM
Also, the "has a fifth exo" concept does not have to be Rej's thing, if there's a better idea that doesn't involve such a thing.

But I think "gets 4 free respawns per mission" would be plenty strong, and possibly too strong.  Is anyone in favor of just giving him more free respawns?  Suggestions on how many?  Anyone opposed?
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Teal_Blue on September 26, 2013, 04:38:10 PM
Just my opinion, but i think 2 respawns is good, not too overpowered and gives an edge when in a heavy mission.

I come out of some missions losing 1 or 2 exos sometimes now that i am used to the game, was more in the beginning, but more than 2 might be too much.

But i like that better than anything else i can think of right now.

-Teal

p.s.    unless someone has a better idea, i just don't want the game to get too easy.

p.s.s. should we be looking at ways to make the game harder? Or does that make it too tough for a broader audience? Anyway, just some thoughts, i've been playing the teleglitch demo and losing my head every game. I am still determined to get it, but it wears heavy losing all the time, so maybe tweaking Bionic Dues for maybe a bit more hard,  but maybe not killer hard is a good idea?

Any thoughts?


Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: x4000 on September 26, 2013, 04:40:02 PM
I agree with Teal, 2 sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Tridus on September 26, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
. The only one that doesn't interest me at all the is the one who gets better / more /  cheaper shop items? I hardly ever use the shop so nuts to that.

I use the shop a fair bit and it's a great ability, so it's good that there's multiple play styles at work there. :)
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 04:56:36 PM
Yea, the shop is very much an optional part of the game.  But Emma turns shopping from an optional occasionally-useful-tool into a superpower :)
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Winge on September 26, 2013, 05:16:09 PM
1.  Axis...do I really have to go into how amazing her passive is?
2.  Emma is hard to start with--since she doesn't start with any cash, her passive doesn't mean much for the first few levels.  However, once she gets going, she can min/max better than any other pilot.
3.  Meg's passive could use a better explanation.  Then again, I haven't spent enough time trying to learn the item level mechanics.
4.  I'm not a huge fan of Tuck, since I like to explore the levels myself, but I don't think he's underpowered.  One thing:  bots should not be able to take advantage of his scouting in Hostage Rescue missions.  Having every single bot run towards a pod is very annoying (as you can't really chase them down).
5.  Genji is a huge early game boost.  As that is when the player is at his weakest, he is pretty good for Expert.  That is kind of lost if you play on lower difficulties, but he is still a good pick.
6.  I haven't tried Rey yet, so I cannot comment too much on him.  Based on some of the discussions, and my reasons for not taking him, how about the following:  allow him to get extra loot if his 'extra' exo survives?  That would allow him to benefit from every mission, like the other commanders.

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Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 05:53:24 PM
2.  Emma is hard to start with--since she doesn't start with any cash, her passive doesn't mean much for the first few levels.  However, once she gets going, she can min/max better than any other pilot.
We could give her some starting cash, but from what I'm hearing she's already strong enough and I think there's some value in having someone whose bonus doesn't kick in until later.  Sort of a counter-point to Genji, who can _dominate_ the early game but by the endgame his bonus is basically nonexistent (assuming you would have been able to find all of the Bahamut missions, which I'm not sure is true all the time).
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Cyborg on September 26, 2013, 06:44:26 PM
2.  Emma is hard to start with--since she doesn't start with any cash, her passive doesn't mean much for the first few levels.  However, once she gets going, she can min/max better than any other pilot.
We could give her some starting cash, but from what I'm hearing she's already strong enough and I think there's some value in having someone whose bonus doesn't kick in until later.  Sort of a counter-point to Genji, who can _dominate_ the early game but by the endgame his bonus is basically nonexistent (assuming you would have been able to find all of the Bahamut missions, which I'm not sure is true all the time).

Actually, it is possible to get to the Bahamut missions fairly easily. At first, I liked this pilot, but now he feels useless halfway through. Would be nice to have some little twist that lasts beyond the first 20 turns.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Winge on September 26, 2013, 07:16:05 PM
2.  Emma is hard to start with--since she doesn't start with any cash, her passive doesn't mean much for the first few levels.  However, once she gets going, she can min/max better than any other pilot.
We could give her some starting cash, but from what I'm hearing she's already strong enough and I think there's some value in having someone whose bonus doesn't kick in until later.  Sort of a counter-point to Genji, who can _dominate_ the early game but by the endgame his bonus is basically nonexistent (assuming you would have been able to find all of the Bahamut missions, which I'm not sure is true all the time).

I completely agree.  She is one of my favorite commanders, as I love min/maxing.  Doesn't quite match the power of Axis, but that's extremely hard to do  ;)
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 07:17:48 PM
I love how Axis has absolutely zero positive impact on the exos or really anything in a mission or even in the store or whatever... but she's probably the most powerful commander.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Winge on September 26, 2013, 07:31:33 PM
I love how Axis has absolutely zero positive impact on the exos or really anything in a mission or even in the store or whatever... but she's probably the most powerful commander.

Well, she does affect things in a mission by giving the player a whole lot more choice of which options to take.

But otherwise, yeah.  Just like in AI War, scouting is key  :)
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Misery on September 26, 2013, 08:36:12 PM
I've been using Tuck alot myself.

That in-mission scouting of his is very useful.  I can immediately figure out where any recharge stations might be, as well as see if there's any "potion" stations around that might help, provided I've run into that type before.

Not to mention knowing where the mission exit is.  Usually I prefer to defeat everything first before leaving a mission, but if my Brawler has just melted himself for the 386319th time and my Science Exo is on fire (because of Science!!! of course), it's often prudent to make a quick exit.

And also making sure I dont miss any loot boxes is good too.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: keith.lamothe on September 26, 2013, 09:22:15 PM
if my Brawler has just melted himself for the 386319th time
The BlunderBot doesn't have a monopoly, that's for sure.

I think I mentioned it before but I dunno if anyone was in favor: what do you think of having a confirm on any shot that would damage your exo?


Glad to hear Tuck's bonus is useful, in any event :)  it's really different from the others, which I like.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Misery on September 26, 2013, 10:07:46 PM
That would be helpful, yes.
Title: Re: Feedback on Commanders
Post by: Winge on September 27, 2013, 01:17:33 AM
I agree, although I would not want it to show up on environmental effects (Fuel Tanks, Explosive Runes, etc.)--probably wouldn't be feasible anyway.  It's just not as much !FUN!.