Do you guys do no marketting?

[Chthon]

Seriously, I just now found Bionic Dues.  I would have bought this up when it first came out.  It's freaking awesome!

I bet you'd get more business with a little bit of marketing though :/  All the people who'd enjoy this but never heard of it.

[Oralordos]

They do some marketing. It really depends on the game. Some games are liked a lot but their marketing efforts didn't do much so they can't continue the project. Other games get lots of marketing but have a more "meh" reaction from everyone. I believe Bionic Dues is one of their better projects in terms of how much people liked it.

[x4000]

I can hear our marketing guy slamming his head into his desk about now.

We did a lot of marketing with Bionic, and had some excellent coverage from various sources before release.  We had a lot of launch coverage as well, like on the Penny Arcade Report and so forth.  But... it came at a time of year when there was a glut of news, in particular, and so a lot of people didn't hear about it.

And this game definitely was not marketed as well as, say, Valley 1 was.

[cupogoodness]

And this game definitely was not marketed as well as, say, Valley 1 was.

True, though I'd argue that was because we had a lot more development time to work with.

[Chthon]

Strange, I even read Penny Arcade's stuff, yet I missed this.  I only found it because there was mention that AI War's patching was on hiatus due to a new project of yours.  I still couldn't find anything really on The Last Federation other than the forum, but I noticed a few new games on your page in the mean time.

[x4000]

And this game definitely was not marketed as well as, say, Valley 1 was.

True, though I'd argue that was because we had a lot more development time to work with.

True.

[doctorfrog]

I watch Arcen a lot (they're my favorite developer) and they definitely did what they could with Bionic Dues. It's hard to stand out, but I think that the game is probably their strongest since AI War (with respect to their other solid titles). I think it may have a "long tail" the way AI War did, though perhaps not to the same degree. It's a very solid title to begin with, and with an expansion and some more patchwork, it'll make some major inroads within the roguelike and turn-based-tactics communities. Both types of players know how to appreciate a title regardless of its age. Just look at Nethack, Adom, and Crawl in the roguelike genre, and again at the continued love for Jagged Alliance and XCOM series. To have a solid, fun game that's also being currently and consistently developed? I think that alone will turn heads.

Disclaimer: I am not a marketing expert by any means.

[Cyborg]

Does anyone remember what it was like to walk into a place like EB games? These kinds of stores were often very small locations in the mall, and the people who would go there were gamer types and kids.


Look at the world today.


You don't have to leave your house, there are thousands and thousands of games, and the concept of shelf space is completely gone. The only way to be noticed is to shout from the treetops and hope that the local town recognizes your existence. You have gaming blogs and YouTube, twitch, and pro-league gaming. You have gaming broadcasters now. It's a whole new world that is reaching people who don't know how to play games, who relentlessly push buttons on their ipad.


It's part luck, part making a good game, part having the industry connections, developing a community, and doing all of these things takes time. It's a new reality where game developers are a dime a dozen. The only way to survive is to master all of these things and hope the quality of your games stands the test of time. I think we are going to be seeing some attrition amongst developers big and small. Big studios will have to contract to absorb the pressure of independent sales, and so will other independent developers. Not everyone is going to make it to the other side.


Let's hope for the best and spread the word among our friends. Let's make sales.

[Chthon]

Well, a lot of indie developers market by giving the games for free to an internet famous streamer and get word out that way these days.  They might try Lethal Frag, or Tornis on Twitch.tv where I stream. (don't do me, I'm not famous, plus I already bought it)  These two are known for their love of another rogue-like and strategy games in general.  They may be willing to play it on cast, and this would get word out to literally thousands of people for the price of a single game.

This is how certain other games got a lot of followers as well.  I wish you could do the same for AI War, but that game is far too complex for most people to want to learn I've found, and I'd hate to see that one lose it's complexity just to become easy to learn.  That isn't to say I wouldn't want the game made easier to learn while keeping the complexity, but that's different.

Anyways, if you passed out a copy of the game to those guys, you might just find yourself get a boost in sales while they play it.  You might even allow them an interview about what you guys view your game design philosophy as, and see an overall boost to all your games

[cupogoodness]

Thanks for the suggestions, we'll look them up.

Also, we actually did do this for Bionic Dues. We did a "launch party" with both gaming sites and video channels, where they either posted an article/video on the game, or livestreamed it. We had about 35 participants ranging from minor to pretty significant (in terms of followings) -- but no one like TB (who had already mentioned the game during one of his PAX Prime wraps last year).

[Chthon]

Thanks for the suggestions, we'll look them up.

Also, we actually did do this for Bionic Dues. We did a "launch party" with both gaming sites and video channels, where they either posted an article/video on the game, or livestreamed it. We had about 35 participants ranging from minor to pretty significant (in terms of followings) -- but no one like TB (who had already mentioned the game during one of his PAX Prime wraps last year.

Yeah, I know all about TB, and his Youtube following, but one of the great things about Twitch.tv is the fact that a caster can interact with his chat.  If you ever want to come by and say hi, and see how I'm doing, you can find me there honestly under the name ChthonicOne.

A number of smaller casters are moving to Hitbox however in protest of the chat delay, and other issues that are happening on the weekends.  However all that is a consequence of how popular Twitch got for hosting game tournaments, especially on the weekends.  They kinda needed to grow far faster than they were able to, so they're a victim of their own success.  They're trying though, I can at least tell that.

I used to upload to Youtube as well under the same name, but after repeated false copyright strikes where even the owner of the copyright couldn't get it removed, I packed my bags and left.  Further changes happened after that reconfirmed my decision to leave, like G+ integration.

That being said, I don't know what the future holds for either company.  Youtube is still way too big to care about small fry like me.  Twitch.tv is growing, but smaller casters get swept aside in changes designed to benefit their largest casters so they can make money and grow.  Who knows when issues we face will clear up.  Finally even Hitbox is a rehash service from a prior company that refused to pay their partners, then went out of business.  Service might be good now, but who knows a year down the line.  Me personally?  I just like to chat with people while I play.

[cupogoodness]

I should have clarified that we made a big push toward Twitch folk as well as YouTubers for Bionic Dues.  Getting Video channel owners interested in the game in general were one of our top priorities.

I've actually sat in for about an hour or so on two of your recent AI War sessions. I've retweeted them (on the ArcenGames account from your own Twitter account) when I've seen them go up over the past couple weeks. Ha! Proof that I actually do market.

[Chthon]

I should have clarified that we made a big push toward Twitch folk as well as YouTubers for Bionic Dues.  Getting Video channel owners interested in the game in general were one of our top priorities.

I've actually sat in for about in an hour or so on two of your recent AI War sessions. I've retweeted them (on the ArcenGames account from your own Twitter account) when I've seen them go up over the past couple weeks. Ha! Proof that I actually do market.

What the?  Ok, I see it now.  You had me wondering who you were that retweeted me, but I missed you about a week and a half ago.

Yeah, sorry I was streaming a lot more often than I am now a while ago, but due to a pest issue here we're trying to get under control, I've had to dial it back a bit.  It's pretty bad when you can't sleep on your own bed at night.

[Sinophile]

I found Bionic Dues through a Steampunk webpage on Facebook, which in turn advertised the Steampunk Bundle. I also regularly visit Steam. Even NPR occasionally does articles on obscure Indie titles(E.G. OctoDad).

[cupogoodness]

I found Bionic Dues through a Steampunk webpage on Facebook, which in turn advertised the Steampunk Bundle. I also regularly visit Steam. Even NPR occasionally does articles on obscure Indie titles(E.G. OctoDad).

It's arguable, but I'd say Octodad doesn't fall under the category of "obscure indie." I watched Phil and his team gradually build momentum over the 3+ years in between the original freeware release and the recent commercial launch -- and few other indies have reached their level of notoriety in the process.

As for NPR, I wasn't aware they had dedicated game writers, I'll see if I can get a hold of one for The Last Federation.