Author Topic: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats  (Read 3318 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« on: September 17, 2013, 01:53:47 PM »
Just looking for more feedback on an issue Misery brought up in this mantis record :

Quote from: Misery
Right now in order to see the current stats of any given system, you have to hover over a part for them to appear, which really seems kinda odd to me. If you dont have any parts in a system yet, you wont see any of these at all, and it kinda makes it look like something is wrong with the display, for it to be all blank like that if you're not hovering over something.

Simply to make things easier I suggest having both the Exo-wide and system specific sections always displayed regardless, similar to how the previous system worked. The fact that it was always displayed before wasnt really the cause of player confusion, and I think the new interface for this should reduce that by a ton, as overall it's much easier to look at and understand, not to mention that dividing it into those two sections helps alot as well. But it not displaying automatically is pretty annoying. Particularly if you're just starting the game, and you wanna have a look at what the specific base stats of each system is to begin with.

And my reply from there:

Quote from: keith.lamothe
Ok, two questions:

1) Regarding "Particularly if you're just starting the game, and you wanna have a look at what the specific base stats of each system is to begin with."

What part of this does the bottom-left display on the exo-customization screen itself not address? It lists all your stats there, right?

2)Regarding "Right now in order to see the current stats of any given system, you have to hover over a part for them to appear, which really seems kinda odd to me. If you dont have any parts in a system yet, you wont see any of these at all, and it kinda makes it look like something is wrong with the display, for it to be all blank like that if you're not hovering over something."

Well, the thing is that the part-picker's purpose is no longer to show you system stats. Its purpose is to show you what will happen if you select a specific part (or select "take the current part out"). If it tries to fill both purposes it gets to be a really enormous amount of info, when really what it actually needs to tell you is far less than that. The confusion comes in when you're trying to figure out why the game is telling you all that stuff, and trying to find the info that's actually relevant.

If you take it at face value, does it still look like the display is wrong?. It no longer says anything about "System Stats", but rather "Clicking Right Now Will Change". Now, as someone who tested it earlier when it _did_ say "System Stats" I understand your confusion, but I don't think that applies once the mental transition is made.

So more basically: does it need to also try to tell you about the system? If so, why?

Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out what y'all actually want from this screen.  I don't mind trying to work the system stats in somehow or another, but it probably means a different layout, etc.  And preferably we can meet those needs on the main customization screen rather than trying to make the part-picker fill both roles.  But first I need to find out what the screen(s) actually need to do :)
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
The problem I had was that when I get a new gun (starting the game for the first time, getting an epic exo upgrade), I want to hover over the weapons to see what they do. They don't show me anything until I start slotting items into them.

It'd be nice to see the weapon stats if you mouse over the weapon while in customization. (Typically I ended up going into a mission and firing the thing so I'd know after that what it does.)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 02:21:47 PM »
The problem I had was that when I get a new gun (starting the game for the first time, getting an epic exo upgrade), I want to hover over the weapons to see what they do. They don't show me anything until I start slotting items into them.
Ah, an excellent point :)

Quote
(Typically I ended up going into a mission and firing the thing so I'd know after that what it does.)
Well, that would be the proper-dwarven-science approach, but I do understand that not everyone will be so inclined.
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 03:09:12 PM »
The problem I had was that when I get a new gun (starting the game for the first time, getting an epic exo upgrade), I want to hover over the weapons to see what they do. They don't show me anything until I start slotting items into them.

It'd be nice to see the weapon stats if you mouse over the weapon while in customization. (Typically I ended up going into a mission and firing the thing so I'd know after that what it does.)
For me this is not only an issue if getting a new gun, but also if I simply want to check the current stats of a weapon I already know about including the equipped parts. Currently the only way to check this is to hover over an item in the parts picker that is boosting the respective stat. So this is definitely missing in the customization UI...
I bet this was one of the most wordy +1s you have heard for quite some time, though ;)...
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 03:36:42 PM »
I agree with this.
Actual system stats are only on it's screen - it's really visible for weapons since their stats are only there or when you go into combat.

I'll take a look at new part picker and see what I can nitpick on.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 03:54:02 PM »
Just in for 0.914:

Quote
* The Exo Customization Window now has mouseover tooltips for each of the weapons (if your cursor is within their area without being over a filled slot of theirs; otherwise it shows what's in that filled slot), listing attack power, range, aoe radius and type (if any), and ammo capacity.

I think this will handle the bulk of that case.  An alternative is to try to actually include that text in the layout of that customization screen, similar to how it already displays the ammo for each weapon.  But I think that could to be just too visually busy and too much info to see at a "summary level".  It also would be none-too-easy to fit on 1024x720.

Another alternative is to also list the info for each weapon in the bottom-left stat block on that window.  It would make that much longer, but it's already scrollable. Would that help?  Or be stuffing too much in there?

Actually for that lower-left stat block I'm thinking of just having it always list every thing.  Taking for example an empty non-epic Siege exo:

Code: [Select]
Shields: 650/650
Power Usage: 0/120

(Inherent)
+10 Sensor Range
+5 Stealth Actions Per Mission

Light Machine Gun:
Attack: 120
Range: 6
Ammo Capacity: 55

Rocket Launcher:
Attack: 1000
Range: 9
Area-Of-Effect: 2 (Radial)
Ammo Capacity: 7

Shield-Related:
Damage Reduction: 0
Regen: 0

Propulsion-Related:
Stealth Actions: 5
Trap Avoidance Level: 0
Self Destruction Level: 0

Computer-Related:
Sensor Range: 10
Hacking Points: 0
Virus Points: 0
Sentry Turrets: 0
Mines: 0
Sentry/Mine Strength Boost: 0%

Each of the actual stat lines having mouseover tooltips as now.

Would that work?  Or be too much?


As for nitpicking on the Part-picker, please do let me know what you would like improved there.  But also bear in mind that it is paired with the exo customization window itself, so what I'm really looking for is feedback on the two of them combined.  Though obviously the original point of the thread was more focused than that (not that that's every stopped us before... ;) ).
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 04:08:39 PM »
Including the weapon stats into the overall layout would be my preferred solution if it can be fitted in.
Otherwise the tooltip is fine.
Having the weapon stats added to the lower left text field would be superfluous for my taste - but i could live with it if they are always appended to the end ;).. (as having to scroll through weapon stats to reach e.g. computer related stats which are only given there would be inconvenient)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 04:11:26 PM by nas1m »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 04:12:14 PM »
Including the weapon stats into the overall layout would be my preferred solution if it can be fitted in.
It makes sense on the surface of it... but on a 5-weapon exo, do you really want 10-15 extra lines of info spread across that screen?  At some point you just get to a wall of info, and a substantial portion of the target audience just glazes over and stops absorbing it.  Or do you think that's not true?
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Offline khadgar

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 04:12:47 PM »
DISCLAIMER - I haven't played in 2 days, so maybe I don't have any idea of how this screen currently looks.

Actually for that lower-left stat block I'm thinking of just having it always list every thing.  Taking for example an empty non-epic Siege exo:

That looks great. That's exactly the sort of thing that would help me figure out my exo's overall ability. I assume that the different categories, if you had a global upgrade, would display something like this?

Code: [Select]
Propulsion-Related: (+28%)
Stealth Actions: 8
Trap Avoidance Level: 3
Self Destruction Level: 4

Though seeing that number there (28%) might be a tiny bit confusing for some people, to not know if the 28% is already applied to the numbers they see below, or if those numbers are pre-bonus. I just want to be able to see my global system bonus stats somewhere in addition to the raw stats.

Also, I know that was just an example, but don't forget 'regen window' under the Shield-Related category! And speaking of, if + global bonus to shield systems effects raw shield values, then regen, regen window, damage reduction, and raw shields should all be grouped together I think.

EDIT: I don't think having the weapon info in the bottom left is entirely necessary. The weapon stats could appear when you are hovering over in the tooltip just fine, but ALSO I would like if they were displayed when changing ANY module for the given weapon system (is that what is called the part picker?).

So, for example, a weapon with 0 parts added would still display all the weapon-based stats in the little part picker screen for that weapon. 8 range, 2  AoE, 52 ammo, etc.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 04:16:35 PM by khadgar »

Offline nas1m

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 04:29:05 PM »
Including the weapon stats into the overall layout would be my preferred solution if it can be fitted in.
It makes sense on the surface of it... but on a 5-weapon exo, do you really want 10-15 extra lines of info spread across that screen?  At some point you just get to a wall of info, and a substantial portion of the target audience just glazes over and stops absorbing it.  Or do you think that's not true?
Never acquired an epic exo yet, so that's a little hard to say.
I think it would turn out okay for three weapons (see: the assault exo), though.
It's just that I would prefer a solution that does not hide that info in a tooltip or a text dump, really.
How about only including damage, range and ammo into the text that is shown directly in the customization UI? The argument being that AoE is fairly situational, while the type of a weapon does not change. Would that mitigate your concerns a bit :)?

EDIT: Additionally *all* weapons stats should be displayed *always* in the upper right corner of the part picker UI if selecting a weapon slot, imho  - as proposed by khadgar above...

EDIT2: If the change to add the stats to the customization UI is trivial for you, just lets give it a shot and see what the others think, don't you think?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 04:36:39 PM by nas1m »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »
I assume that the different categories, if you had a global upgrade, would display something like this?
Actually, I wouldn't show that there, I don't think.  It would just show the final values for each stat, rather than showing the second-order stats (stats which only impact other stats).

I mean, I can certainly show those too, but ultimately I think it's unnecessary and potentially confusing.

Quote
Also, I know that was just an example, but don't forget 'regen window' under the Shield-Related category!
Regen-window is no longer a stat as of 0.913 :)  It's just always 5 now.  That way you don't need two stats to make a single mechanic work (same reason that consecutive-stealth was removed as a stat, it's just the one stealth stat now).

Quote
EDIT: I don't think having the weapon info in the bottom left is entirely necessary. The weapon stats could appear when you are hovering over in the tooltip just fine, but ALSO I would like if they were displayed when changing ANY module for the given weapon system (is that what is called the part picker?).
What I'd really like to avoid is making the part-picker responsible for showing anything but a comparison of the two parts in question.  With the minimum spec of 1024x720 it can _just barely_ manage to do that space-wise right now (when considering swapping a General Overcharger in or out), and if we try to make it also tell you additional info on top of that I'll probably have to rework the whole thing again.  Which we can do if truly necessary, but I think even if it weren't for the space/layout problems it would make the part-picker less useful rather than more useful because it would be showing you info you didn't really need to know at the time.
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »
EDIT: Additionally *all* weapons stats should be displayed *always* in the upper right corner of the part picker UI if selecting a weapon slot, imho  - as proposed by khadgar above...
What I'd really like to avoid is making the part-picker responsible for showing anything but a comparison of the two parts in question.  With the minimum spec of 1024x720 it can _just barely_ manage to do that space-wise right now (when considering swapping a General Overcharger in or out), and if we try to make it also tell you additional info on top of that I'll probably have to rework the whole thing again.  Which we can do if truly necessary, but I think even if it weren't for the space/layout problems it would make the part-picker less useful rather than more useful because it would be showing you info you didn't really need to know at the time.
I can see your reasoning here, so please ignore my above edit to my previous post.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2013, 04:42:45 PM »
Ok, well, we can try just having weapons always show all Attack, Range, and Ammo (and AOE-range if its base aoe > 0) on the part-picker comparison block... but we couldn't do just that and leave it, really.  Right now the header for that section is "Clicking Right Now Will Change:", followed by "(Nothing)" if nothing would change.

What should it say when you're in there for a weapon slot?

Something like changing from:

Code: [Select]
Clicking Right Now Will Change:

(Nothing)

to:

Code: [Select]
Clicking Right Now Will Change:

(Nothing, but for reference here are the weapon stats):
(System-Specific)
Attack Power: 250
Attack Range: 4
Ammo Capacity: 24

?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2013, 05:10:52 PM »
Just put in the changes to the customization window's lower-left stat block, so it now shows all stats (that aren't just boosts to other stats) for the exo even if they're zero, and includes the weapon info (at the end).
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Offline orzelek

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Re: Discussion: Part-Picker UI, showing system stats
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 05:38:29 PM »
Main thing that I'm missing is a power display thats present on both customization screen and when you are fitting modules.

I see that new interface added power balance to fitting screen.
So it's missing only from customization screen - need to scroll stats around to see it.