Author Topic: Discussion: Misery Difficulty  (Read 1236 times)

Offline Misery

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Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« on: September 17, 2013, 09:26:33 AM »
That would at least be an appropriate word for a mode higher in difficulty than "Expert", heh.


As the difficulty goes, I should go further yet before I try to judge it much.   I did get a good challenge out of the one assassination mission that I've done so far, that was fun.   It's been very enjoyable overall, too.

One thing that does occur to me is that, at least for the higher difficulties, having some of the "rare" bots appear more often might be an interesting way to add to the challenge without just altering stats more.  Like, I'll often do a mission, and I'll encounter something like, I dunno, a WyvernBot or whatever, but I'll only encounter 2 or 3 of it in said mission, while I'll run into like 50 of everything else.  The idea of having something particularly dangerous appearing in a mission, but only a few of it, is a good idea, but it might be TOO few to have much impact.  Maybe even have an occaisional boss appear unexpectedly in a mission, and not necessarily one of the two chosen types for the final army.  It'd be kinda neat to see those types have more of a presence in the game, as they make for interesting fights.

So far, the various "buff" bots seem to be the ones that add to the challenge the most.   The interesting thing with those guys though is what happens if you virus them.... but that can be really darned risky depending on the situation since it often means letting those things live longer and buff more enemy bots.   

I wonder, is anyone else playing this mode, that might have some extra feedback on it?  Admittedly my ideas of what a "challenge" is defined as can be a little warped, so other opinions on this mode might be helpful. 

EDIT: It's also worth noting that I'm like 18 or so days into the game at this point, and still havent found even one of the Bahamut upgrades.... unlike my earlier games, where they would sometimes show up really close to the starting point.    Those can definitely alter the challenge level a bit.  Particularly if gotten early.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 09:37:03 AM by Misery »

Offline x4000

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 10:29:56 AM »
I went ahead and split this out, as this is a good feature request for sometime in the near future, with some good thoughts on how to make a truly challenging mode above expert.  I don't have time to do it right this instant, but it's something worth discussing so that it can be implemented prior to 1.0.
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Offline Pepisolo

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 10:54:46 AM »
No major thoughts yet other than I like the word Misery as a difficulty level.

Offline Misery

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 09:04:23 PM »
Well.  didn't expect that.

I'll come up with more direct suggestions as I continue through Expert here.

Offline Winge

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 10:28:40 PM »
With Expert being as tough as it is, Misery difficulty would be very well-named...
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Offline Misery

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 04:40:53 AM »
Ok, a few ideas/suggestions for this one, which I'll add to as I come up with or remember more of them.  Specifically, suggestions that dont just involve increasing enemy stats or decreasing those of the player.

1.  Make it so that bosses can appear in any mission;  could be any type of boss, not just the ones in the army list, and it wouldnt affect the army list at all.   Probably only one per mission.  These would add an extra layer of challenge to the mission without doing anything to the bots that are already there.  The bosses would also just have more presence overall in the game, which could be neat.

2.  Give bots an increased awareness/wakeup range.

3.  Have "rare" bots within missions appear more.  As I understand it... and I could be wrong... the mission generator seems to select a list of robots that will appear there, and often seems to assign certain ones as being rare within that mission.  For example, on the Bahamut mission I just did, there were tons of commandbots, silencebots, and so on, but also exactly one ShieldBot appeared.  The ones that get selected for this often seem to be some of the more dangerous ones, so increasing their numbers could definitely make the missions tougher.

4.  More traps.  Give tripwires an increased chance of appearing.

5.  Lower HQ HP to 2 instead of three.  The player can make one mistake and lose, and ONLY once.  If they dont successfully do a salvage mission after a loss, that's the end of it for them.  No mercy!

6. Increase prices of things to buy in the store.


And I'll think up some more later.

Offline x4000

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 08:44:52 AM »
Okie dokie.

* Normal Difficulty changes:
** Enemy alert range 7 => 10
** Multiplier for non-boss health 1 => 1.3

* Hard Difficulty changes:
** Enemy alert range 10 => 12
** Cost of items in store is now 1.2x higher

* Expert Difficulty changes:
** Cost of items in store is now 1.6x higher

* New Misery Difficulty:
** Same as expert with the following differences:
** Enemy alert range 14 => 18
** HQ Health 3 => 2
** Enemy levels per day 20 => 22
** 3 very mean terminal effects rather than 2, and 4 mean terminal effects rather than 5.
** Regular bot health and attack exponents: 1.13 => 1.14 and 1.18 => 1.19
** Boss bot health and attack exponents: 1.10 => 1.11 and 1.13 => 1.14
** 3.2x multiplier for non-boss health rather than 3.0
** Cost of items in store is 2.8x higher
** Score multiplier on victory 50 => 70

* The special bots now appear more frequently on higher difficulties.
** 1 extra per mission on normal, 2 on hard, 3 on expert, and 5 on misery

* Tripwires now appear more frequently on higher difficulties.
** 1 extra per mission on expert and 2 on misery.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 09:14:26 AM »
Well.  THIS should be interesting to try out  :D

I'm assuming that "really mean" terminal effects is stuff like the "kills you instantly" one?

I like the sound of the store changes for these too.   A cost increase should actually make a pretty big difference.  Whole store bit has turned out very well, by the way.  I wish other random-loot games could get this one right more often than they do.   

And I'm curious, what counts as a "special" bot?

Offline x4000

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 09:56:16 AM »
Well.  THIS should be interesting to try out  :D

Thought you'd be pleased. :)

I'm assuming that "really mean" terminal effects is stuff like the "kills you instantly" one?

Yep, among others.  Keith would know the full list, I don't have it offhand.

I like the sound of the store changes for these too.   A cost increase should actually make a pretty big difference.  Whole store bit has turned out very well, by the way.  I wish other random-loot games could get this one right more often than they do.

Awesome! :)

And I'm curious, what counts as a "special" bot?

RazorBot, RadarBot, BodyBot, ShieldBot, DiamondBot, RecoilBot, MantaBot

Those are all "special seeding" bots that work unlike any of the other non-boss bots.  These get seeded on their own logic, generally in small numbers, in any mission type.  All of the other non-boss bots go through normal seeding logic where it picks 5 types for a mission, and then seeds them in ratios based on their internal "role."  The absolute number that the ratios are pulling from for the regular bots is based on the mission type.  Special seeding bots also use ratios for their seeding, but it's based around an absolute number of seeding spots that is separate from the normal bot seeding spots.  And again, it doesn't limit them to any subset based on the specific mission in question.
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Offline Histidine

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Re: Discussion: Misery Difficulty
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 06:58:42 AM »
So... is anyone faring well with this? I managed to get all the way to day 7!