Author Topic: Better BombBots  (Read 1132 times)

Offline nas1m

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Better BombBots
« on: August 26, 2014, 03:58:43 PM »
Just mantised a number of propositions to make BombBots a little more interesting:

Based on the feedback that even Misery missions are fairly easy if they have BombBots in them:
  • Increase the PITAR of BombBots significantly, potentially to 40 or slightly below this value on Expert. The idea here is that reducing the explosion radius of BombBots removes a big part of what is fun about them (Exlosions!), but having too many of them trivializes any mission. Thus reducing their frequency by bumping their PITAR
  • Make BombBots explode a the time they enter the same square as the player (i.e. no BOOM if passing by a disabled BombBot) to bump their immediate threatfulness a bit.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 02:11:53 AM by nas1m »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 07:02:12 PM »
Why not have them simply explode if the player is within the AoE range?

The idea of them having to get right next to the player to do their thing is likely to be a rare occurrence, I should think.  Anyone that's gotten at all good at the game probably isnt allowing ANY bots to get THAT close to them, unless they're stealth-walking up to something to virus them. 

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 07:51:14 PM »
I let BombBots near me all the time. I also ScienceExo them into very convenient boobytraps. But having them explode once they are in range is not ideal. Often a BombBot is near other bots initially. Having him explode when someone is in range is an easy way to get an ammo-free explosion using a NinjaExo and take out a ton of other bots. Often, if I need to shoot the BombBot a few times the other bots will be out of position, so getting an immediate explosion is a plus.

To make BombBots tougher it is probably easiest to start by making them immune to other BombBots (they already don't explode when dying to mines). I had a chain reaction Firefight mission that wiped out all but 4 bots (on expert btw) on the first turn. Next I'd probably have them wait until they got up next to a player before exploding. Waiting for close proximity makes it harder to maneuver them into other bots, largely because the other bots can shoot you before they get into range of the BombBot sitting in your lap.

If that gets done I'd change my Misery special bonus for BombBots to "cannot be immobilzed" since that's the easiest way to abuse them.

Offline nas1m

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 01:29:28 AM »
Why not have them simply explode if the player is within the AoE range?

The idea of them having to get right next to the player to do their thing is likely to be a rare occurrence, I should think.  Anyone that's gotten at all good at the game probably isnt allowing ANY bots to get THAT close to them, unless they're stealth-walking up to something to virus them.
I would be against this as well. I tend to let them come close to stun them and use them as booby traps later. All; I would like to do is introduce some danger to this strategy where there is currently none. Sure if you can you will never let them that close, but depending on the number of other targets of immediate danger you might be forced to ;)...

I let BombBots near me all the time. I also ScienceExo them into very convenient boobytraps. But having them explode once they are in range is not ideal. Often a BombBot is near other bots initially. Having him explode when someone is in range is an easy way to get an ammo-free explosion using a NinjaExo and take out a ton of other bots. Often, if I need to shoot the BombBot a few times the other bots will be out of position, so getting an immediate explosion is a plus.
This.

To make BombBots tougher it is probably easiest to start by making them immune to other BombBots (they already don't explode when dying to mines). I had a chain reaction Firefight mission that wiped out all but 4 bots (on expert btw) on the first turn. Next I'd probably have them wait until they got up next to a player before exploding. Waiting for close proximity makes it harder to maneuver them into other bots, largely because the other bots can shoot you before they get into range of the BombBot sitting in your lap.

If that gets done I'd change my Misery special bonus for BombBots to "cannot be immobilzed" since that's the easiest way to abuse them.
I would be more inclined to keep them being vulnerable to each other for the sheer fun of it and reduce their frequency significantly on higher difficulties by raising their PITAR with difficulty instead. Maybe Keith could even realize a hard limit for certain bot types per mission to prevent high PITAR BombBots from replacing all the !!fun!! stuff in a mission.

The same goes for not being able to immobilize them at all. That's a tad too much for my taste. How about either making them shake of immobility after 3-5 turns or simply increasing my proposed trigger range from 0 to 1? That way even passing by BombBots could get interesting on Misery...
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 01:33:57 AM by nas1m »
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 09:27:20 AM »
I can't see why you wouldn't have a NinjaExo on misery simply for hacking terminals until you find the one that explodes (question, can Trap Skill prevent negative effects of terminals?). As a result you'll always be able to cheese BombBots. Shaking immobilization works for me.

Offline nas1m

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 09:36:56 AM »
I can't see why you wouldn't have a NinjaExo on misery simply for hacking terminals until you find the one that explodes (question, can Trap Skill prevent negative effects of terminals?). As a result you'll always be able to cheese BombBots. Shaking immobilization works for me.
I guess it is a question of whether you always have the time to switch to your Ninja to cheese an incoming BombBot in case you were about to doing something else (or were forced to do so).
Also, always wasting one of a Ninja's computer slots to have some hacking points at hand (or omitting some other bonus on some other part) might be questionable on Misery as well. Given the amount of buffs the Ninja's propulsion boost can create with mines, turrets and stuff ;)...

AFAIK, trap skill can't prevent negative side-effects from terminals.
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 09:53:49 AM »
You only need the ninja to hack until you find the exploding terminal. Once you do it is identified and you can pull the hacking from your ninja. And really you just need 3-4 hacking points. Often that will cost you just 10 power and 1 computer slot.

Offline nas1m

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 09:57:53 AM »
You only need the ninja to hack until you find the exploding terminal. Once you do it is identified and you can pull the hacking from your ninja. And really you just need 3-4 hacking points. Often that will cost you just 10 power and 1 computer slot.
Depends on how fast you are able to find the booming terminal ;).
But yes, I see your point. One more reason to add the random party conduct >D.

EDIT:
Which one of my propositions do we argue about anyway :)?
Or are you simply in favor of leaving them as they are?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 09:59:40 AM by nas1m »
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Offline nas1m

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Re: Better BombBots
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 01:22:42 AM »
Just as an afterthought: I just remembered that you won't be able to completely trivialize terminals using a Ninja for the hacking, since there is at least one terminal involved that will kill your Exo - no matter what ;).

As for nerfing the cheese factor of the Ninja's AOE immunity a bit: What do you think about it on having immunity when stealthed? This would at least put a counter on how often this can be pulled off...
EDIT: Mantised here.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 02:11:35 AM by nas1m »
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