Author Topic: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?  (Read 2755 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2013, 09:14:05 AM »
Ok, a small suggestion I wanted to make, is on the main customization screen, to have the level of each item, the "Mk. V" or whatever, display above/next to each, so I can see it at a glance, since it's directly related to their overall power/effectiveness.   With 4 Exos and tons of slots, it's easy to get lost in there, and forget that I've had such and such weak, old part stuck in a particular slot since much earlier in the game, when I coulda put something better there.

Other than that, and maybe item "categories" instead of them always appearing in a huge confusing blob in the inventory or store, the UI pretty much seems to be where it should be for this.  Cant think of any other problems.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2013, 09:16:59 AM »
Ok, a small suggestion I wanted to make, is on the main customization screen, to have the level of each item, the "Mk. V" or whatever, display above/next to each, so I can see it at a glance, since it's directly related to their overall power/effectiveness.   With 4 Exos and tons of slots, it's easy to get lost in there, and forget that I've had such and such weak, old part stuck in a particular slot since much earlier in the game, when I coulda put something better there.

Good one!

Other than that, and maybe item "categories" instead of them always appearing in a huge confusing blob in the inventory or store, the UI pretty much seems to be where it should be for this.  Cant think of any other problems.

The idea is that for your older stuff you either archive it or sell it, so that the main list doesn't remain all that long.  Is there a reason you're not doing that?
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Offline Misery

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2013, 09:22:44 AM »
Ok, a small suggestion I wanted to make, is on the main customization screen, to have the level of each item, the "Mk. V" or whatever, display above/next to each, so I can see it at a glance, since it's directly related to their overall power/effectiveness.   With 4 Exos and tons of slots, it's easy to get lost in there, and forget that I've had such and such weak, old part stuck in a particular slot since much earlier in the game, when I coulda put something better there.

Good one!

Other than that, and maybe item "categories" instead of them always appearing in a huge confusing blob in the inventory or store, the UI pretty much seems to be where it should be for this.  Cant think of any other problems.

The idea is that for your older stuff you either archive it or sell it, so that the main list doesn't remain all that long.  Is there a reason you're not doing that?

No no, it does get sold or archived, usually I end up with about one row of stuff that I hold onto which I may decide to use/sell later.  It's mostly just that initial post-mission item blob, it's kinda hard to look at/through.  Some of those missions can give tons of loot!   Usually I found I was after something specific, like weapon-slot items, and I'd get lost in that huge blob trying to see how many I had, at a glance.   ....if that makes sense.   I'm not so sure that it does :p

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2013, 09:26:34 AM »
Okay, I got it.  Yeah, what you basically want is filters, not really sorting.  That's already been suggested and is on my list for some point before too long (aka prior to 1.0, but not right this moment).
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Offline Aeson

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2013, 09:47:54 AM »
"* The sight range for all exos has been increased to 16 instead of 8, and 20 instead of 12 for the snipers."
This will help, yes, but I can get the Plasma Cannon to hit out to range 19 with just a single scope in my current game (and I can get the splash radius up to 21 with 19 attack range, bearing in mind that this is very late in the game, with ~10 days left on the counter), and all the way out to 32 range if I try to maximize the weapon range. Since I know that I can't fire BVR, I wouldn't do this, but a newer player might be unaware of this.

Having some information somewhere that tells you that you can't fire BVR would be helpful, because the only reason I took note of it was because my Plasma Cannon technically had enough range for me to use it safely, but during missions I couldn't get outside of the splash range. Could just be a hot tip the first time you put in enough components to extend the range BVR, or it could be a warning in the design screen. Alternatively, the things which boost Attack Range could additionally boost Sight Range, or you could introduce a mechanic that allows weapons other than the Shadow Torpedo to be targeted BVR (probably as a module, so that there's a trade-off in Exo power, rather than just as a "all weapons whose range exceeds visual can be targeted using sensors alone"). Another possibility is to just have the range number capped to the sight range, so if you add enough +range modules to have weapon range exceed the sight range, the listed weapon range doesn't increase beyond the sight range unless it's a weapon that can fire BVR like the Shadow Torpedo can.

I'm also slightly concerned that doubling the view range will allow me to see too much of a level at once, although that's something that I'd have to try before I can give a definite opinion on it.


"I agree with you something needs to be done there, but I'm not quite sure what.  I could add that to the initial mission hot tips, I guess.  But the arrow and so forth off the screen doesn't work for well over half the missions, where technically the only goal is "find the warp."  For the others that have an actual intermediary goal, that would work, but I want to be consistent."
You could have the objectives update to inform the player that they now need to find the warp tile (e.g. 'Proceed to Warp Point for evacuation') for missions with an intermediate objective, or alternatively add a line at the end of the objective description that says something like "Then proceed to the Warp Point for evacuation". For missions without an intermediate objective, it could be something like "When you're ready for evacuation, proceed to the Warp Point" as a one-sentence addition to the mission objective.

I personally dislike the floating arrow that points in the direction of the Warp Point because the Warp Point is typically next to one of the mission objectives, which would make it easier for me to find said mission objective.

Offline x4000

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2013, 12:06:24 PM »
Regarding BVR and firing beyond it, I think that will be moot now, most likely.  I don't think it's possible to amp up a weapon beyond that anymore, at any rate.  And anyhow I think it quickly becomes clear to the player if they do manage that, as it they are quite experienced by the game at that stage.  Detecting the weapon range stuff would be tricky to do a hot tip for -- not impossible, but definitely unwieldy.  I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze there.

Regarding the sight range being increased so much, I wouldn't worry about that too much, but we'll see once you see it in practice.  It actually feels a lot more natural to me, particularly when paired with the pessimistic sight range change from the prior version.  This sort of range actually is what the game originally had for a long while in pre-alpha, and going back to it makes me kind of happy. :)
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Offline Aquohn

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2013, 08:53:50 PM »
Er, just a tiny thing that might make the interface a bit more understandable and intuitive: when you start the game, there are these columns of icons on either side, but you have no idea what they do or are supposed to represent until you mouse over them. So maybe you can have text headers like "Enemy Bots" or "Pilot" or "Exo" over the relevant icons, or, for example, write "Store" on the store icon. That way people won't need to mouse over the icons to get basic information about what they are, because otherwise it might be a tad bit confusing at first.
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Offline Aquohn

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2013, 09:05:36 PM »
Also, it's not very clear when you're mounting modules that to remove the one that's currently mounted, you're supposed to click on its icon. Perhaps printing "Remove" across the icon of the module that is in that slot would make that clearer.
Arcen in Summary:
thank you so much, RNG
It aims to please!

Or is that "to kill"?  Hmm.

Offline Aquohn

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2013, 09:14:17 PM »
One more thing: it's not at all clear waht the colourful crosshair thingies that you see during missions are supposed to be (still haven't figured out what they are).
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2013, 09:22:43 PM »
Those indicate unexplored regions of the map, or maybe hackable doors.

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2013, 09:48:50 PM »
They are indeed unexplored regions.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline mrhanman

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 10:50:59 PM »
Either way, this is a roguelike; if you don't know what something is, blow it up!  There'll be time for regrets later!  ;D

Offline khadgar

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2013, 01:30:33 AM »
First launch, played for maybe an hour. The two biggest questions in my head were

1) "What is the deal with all these crosshairs everywhere?"
and
2) "Why is WHISTLE effected by my SIGHT radius?"

The answer to #1 might lie within the text I didn't read, but to me, a crosshair graphic indicates something I want to shoot, not empty unexplored darkness. I mean, maybe I want to shoot the darkness? But mostly I think a less shooting-oriented graphic would more suit an unexplored region. Maybe a question mark instead, or some sort of mystery fog/blackness border transition between the unknown and the known. Dithered blackness? I don't really know.

For #2, the question was mostly 'why' but sometimes 'how'. For the most part, when I whistled, I knew what I was getting myself into, I was just a bit confused as to why an auditory effect, whistle, was in any way impacted by my sight radius. A stack of barrels somehow prevents a robot on the other side of it from hearing the whistle? Okay... sure! A few times, however, I whistled and inadvertently 'pulled' way too many bots because my exo saw them but I didn't know/realize it would effect them.

Offline mrhanman

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2013, 01:39:00 AM »
1) Crosshairs do indicate unexplored areas.  They were useful when the walls weren't as distinct, but now...maybe not as much.  I still use them after I've more or less cleared a mission and am looking for the hackable doors.

2) I don't think it's a whistle as you and I think of it.  I think it's more like a SONAR ping that "wakes up" Bots within range.  Maybe ping would be a better name for it, come to think of it.  Unless it is actually a whistle as in the sound one makes by blowing air past one's pursed lips.  In that case, you're right.  Why would it be affected by sensors?

Offline khadgar

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Re: Alpha players: What is the game still not telling you that you want it to?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2013, 02:58:01 AM »
2) I don't think it's a whistle as you and I think of it.  I think it's more like a SONAR ping that "wakes up" Bots within range.  Maybe ping would be a better name for it, come to think of it.  Unless it is actually a whistle as in the sound one makes by blowing air past one's pursed lips.  In that case, you're right.  Why would it be affected by sensors?

Yeah. It is only a confusion between the name whistle, which in my life is a sound thing, not a vision thing. A sonar thing would make just as little sense because that is also sound. If it corresponds with sight radius / line of sight, then I think it should have a visual name. "Flash" or "Blink" or whatever would make the connection in my head.

Just to clarify, I **GET** whistle. I get it's use from RPG-ish role playing games where you could ventriloquistily whistle to distract or attract an enemy to a certain location. I understand the concept and it's use in game, I just didn't intuit the relationship between whistling and LoS.