Author Topic: A quick question  (Read 1549 times)

Offline Misery

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A quick question
« on: October 15, 2013, 02:58:38 AM »
The bots chosen for the final army.... are these lists preset, as opposed to picking each bot randomly?

At the very end of my playthrough just now I suddenly realized that the entire bot set in that list was all stealth and ninjas and such.   Except for the bosses, which were horrible murderblobs.

But yeah, just curious about that.

Offline orzelek

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 01:18:28 PM »
Final army list is randomized at game start.
What you have displayed is what you get - you can do some missions (Assasinations/Lion Den's) to fight that bots and thin them out a bit.

Offline x4000

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 01:21:23 PM »
It is randomized, but by category.  So there are always 2 bosses at the bottom, there is always one "rare" bot above them, then two "uncommon" ones above that, then two commons.
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Offline Misery

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 12:45:04 AM »
Allright, that makes sense.

So it was just the RNG deciding to ONLY go with stealthy ninja thieves.   And PantherBots for no apparent reason.  Which are pretty hilarious when HideBots are around.

Offline Misery

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 08:58:18 AM »
Ok, more questions:  Are Doombots supposed to be in the "uncommon" area?  They seem like rare enemies to me, but I'm not sure if that's the list they're on or not.  Wheras I've got SilenceBots in the "rare" slot, but those things tend to be all over the place.

At the very least, the Doombots seem like something that is a bit too strong for the large numbers of them that end up being built if they're in a slot that's not rare.  Actual hordes of them are very nasty to deal with.

Offline x4000

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 09:16:12 AM »
DoomBots and DeathBots are actually not even uncommon, they are considered common.  I'm not sure that is really a problem, it hasn't been someone anyone has really noticed before now -- they show up in large numbers, but if they were in small numbers only then their ability to power up would be something that would never come into play because you'd kill them too fast.

SilenceBot is indeed classed as rare, not because it is super difficult, but because its ability is so specialized that it would be really... well, odd, if there were a ton of them at once.  It could quickly get unwinnable with all of them redirecting damage between each other at 75% scale.
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Offline FrostyThePyro

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 12:21:40 PM »
DoomBots and DeathBots are actually not even uncommon, they are considered common.  I'm not sure that is really a problem, it hasn't been someone anyone has really noticed before now -- they show up in large numbers, but if they were in small numbers only then their ability to power up would be something that would never come into play because you'd kill them too fast.

SilenceBot is indeed classed as rare, not because it is super difficult, but because its ability is so specialized that it would be really... well, odd, if there were a ton of them at once.  It could quickly get unwinnable with all of them redirecting damage between each other at 75% scale.

But silence bots cant shunt damage to other silence bots, so that wouldnt realy mater much i think.

As a side note in reference to weird RNG army selection things, in all 5 of my games, clawbots have been one of the bosses selected.

Online Toranth

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 06:59:07 PM »
DoomBots and DeathBots are actually not even uncommon, they are considered common.  I'm not sure that is really a problem, it hasn't been someone anyone has really noticed before now -- they show up in large numbers, but if they were in small numbers only then their ability to power up would be something that would never come into play because you'd kill them too fast.
Oh, I hate DoomBots.  Absolutely hate their boss-level attack and their boss-level HP.  I'd noticed they were pretty common (kicking my Exo-butt that often does not go unnoticed), I'd just assumed it was deliberate, making sure that no matter how friendly the RNG's bot selection was, there was always something there to chew up the players.  You know, Arcen gameplay.

Offline x4000

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 07:20:49 PM »
Oh yes, it was deliberate. ;)
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 07:31:51 PM »
Oh yes, it was deliberate. ;)

Glad it worked out for you.
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Offline x4000

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 07:33:53 PM »
I didn't say that it's something that will never be changed.  But he asked if it was deliberate, and the answer is yes.  Lots of things that are deliberate end up being ill-advised, and I'm open to the possibility.  But the question wasn't that, but whether it was something that just happened.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 07:37:38 PM »
I understand, I'm just saying I hope it was wise. I honestly don't know, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know either way. I just know throwing extremely, extremely strong units on a common basis is...anything but common.

EDIT: When bosses are common, what truly is a boss, as opposed to miserable enemies?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 07:42:53 PM by chemical_art »
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Offline x4000

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 08:19:47 PM »
True.  One thing is that the balance of the doombots changed enormously since I originally made them common.  Their base health got buffed a lot so that their actual ability would have time to kick in some, and I think that really contributed to the feeling that they are like bosses.  Originally they were not quite so nasty.

In a roguelike or similar game I think it can be fun to have uneven spots of difficulty, but the question is whether or not it is fun in this particular case.  I've never had a huge problem with them, but then again they've never come up in my final battle before.  And I play on hard, not expert or misery.

So, as noted, I'm open to feedback here.
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Offline Misery

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Re: A quick question
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2013, 10:00:16 PM »
DoomBots and DeathBots are actually not even uncommon, they are considered common.  I'm not sure that is really a problem, it hasn't been someone anyone has really noticed before now -- they show up in large numbers, but if they were in small numbers only then their ability to power up would be something that would never come into play because you'd kill them too fast.

SilenceBot is indeed classed as rare, not because it is super difficult, but because its ability is so specialized that it would be really... well, odd, if there were a ton of them at once.  It could quickly get unwinnable with all of them redirecting damage between each other at 75% scale.

Hmm, wait, I dont understand just how this works.

Is it "rare" as in "rare that it's chosen to appear in a mission" or is it instead rare as to how many of them might appear in a mission, like say, the very low numbers that things like DiamondBots show up in?

Generally when I see SilenceBots in any given mission, there usually are lots of them.  They tend to be one of the most numerous bots in any mission they show up in.  And their ability doesnt seem to work on each other?  Granted, they can still be *nasty* indeed.   But yeah, I wondered if there might be a bug there?


As for the DoomBots.... well, I'll see what happens.   This is in a Misery run, by the way, heh.   It also chose Vipers as one of the bosses.  You know, to make sure there isnt ANYTHING left, as opposed to at least a smear on the ground where the Exos used to be.   DoomBots actually usually dont give me much trouble, but those ViperBots do.  Nasty little snots.