Arcen Games

General Category => Bionic Dues => : x4000 October 14, 2013, 08:23:33 PM

: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: x4000 October 14, 2013, 08:23:33 PM
Release notes: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Bionic_Dues_Post_Release_Notes#Beta_1.001

Steam will not automatically update you to this version unless you specifically add yourself to the beta branch for this game.  To do so, right-click the game in steam and choose properties.  Under the Betas tab, choose "beta" from the dropdown.  You may have to restart steam after that in order to get it to trigger the download of the 1.001 version.  Once this feature set is considered stable, it will be merged into the normal steam update path for everyone.

This new version has some fixes, and in particular the big balance tweak is for sentry turrets.  Even bigger than that, though, is a customization-screen improvement that works if you have 1280x768-or-better screen resolution.  There is a toggle in the Extras tab that lets you turn that on.  Here's a screenshot of it:

(http://arcengames.com/dl/Bionic_RevisedCustomizationScreenFor1280x768.jpg)
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: BobTheJanitor October 14, 2013, 08:31:12 PM
Getting no comparison when I click to select a part and then mouse over things on the left side... I do get comparison numbers if I mouse over parts that are already installed in other slots. But they are wrapping around to the next line and writing underneath other text. Abort! Abort!

Running on 1680x1050, if that's pertinent.

Edit: Example shot here (http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/541848004549513430/5D01A6D22E51FFFF284FCECA86B8411B5B3130C4/). Note stealth actions, trap skill, and power level.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: keith.lamothe October 14, 2013, 08:44:34 PM
Getting no comparison when I click to select a part and then mouse over things on the left side...
Ah, right.  When you select a slot it's not actually so you can just left click an inventory item to put it there.  It's just to filter the inventory by what can go there (you still have to drag&drop to do the installation), but I do see the source of confusion.

I do get comparison numbers if I mouse over parts that are already installed in other slots. But they are wrapping around to the next line and writing underneath other text. Abort! Abort!
Well serves you right for having larger numbers than I saw in my tests! ;)  Yea, will need to send those labels to Text Wrapping Re-education Camp.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Pepisolo October 14, 2013, 08:53:05 PM
Haven't test much yet, but how about mouse scroll wheel to cycle through exos?
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: BobTheJanitor October 14, 2013, 09:12:23 PM
Ah, right.  When you select a slot it's not actually so you can just left click an inventory item to put it there.  It's just to filter the inventory by what can go there (you still have to drag&drop to do the installation), but I do see the source of confusion.

I am still confused. I would think the intended behavior would be click item, then mouse over eligible items on the left and look below to see how stats are changing. (as compared to the non-beta version where you click item, get a new screen listing eligible items, and mouse over them to see how the stats are changing) If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Pepisolo October 14, 2013, 09:19:44 PM
I am still confused. I would think the intended behavior would be click item, then mouse over eligible items on the left and look below to see how stats are changing. (as compared to the non-beta version where you click item, get a new screen listing eligible items, and mouse over them to see how the stats are changing) If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.

Yeah, regarding how to then implement the slot filter thing, I think you're going to need to change the slot names into toggle-able buttons. Reactor, that's a button. Propulsion, that's a button. Computer...you better believe that's a button.

Click Reactor button: button becomes highlighted and filters applied. Click again, filter deactivated.

The general concept and layout seems extremely promising, but it does need a lot more refinement. Hey, that's what we're here for, right?  :D
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: keith.lamothe October 14, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.
Left click an item on the left, drag it over to a slot, and (before dropping) look at the comparison :)
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Pepisolo October 14, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.
Left click an item on the left, drag it over to a slot, and (before dropping) look at the comparison :)

Ah, I see. Actually, what's stopping you from making this work both ways. Let's say you click a slot (which is now highlighted) then mousing over anything in your inventory could also show the changes.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Taikei no Yuurei October 14, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
I have to agree the way everyone is saying sounds the most intuitive.  The dragging and hovering to compare thing sounds a little clunky, and if you're trying to compare a half dozen or more items, fairly time consuming even.  Haven't tested it out yet, don't want to update till I'm done with my current game.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: keith.lamothe October 14, 2013, 09:54:00 PM
If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.
Left click an item on the left, drag it over to a slot, and (before dropping) look at the comparison :)

Ah, I see. Actually, what's stopping you from making this work both ways. Let's say you click a slot (which is now highlighted) then mousing over anything in your inventory could also show the changes.
That could be done, sure.  The question is what people want.

For instance, do people want fire that can be fitted nasally (http://www.clivebanks.co.uk/THHGTTG/THHGTTGradio6.htm)?

Or a belt sander that can be fitted facially (http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,14052.msg159980.html#msg159980)?
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Pepisolo October 14, 2013, 10:05:09 PM
That could be done, sure.  The question is, ** is that** what people want.
Edit: ** how I read this sentence in my brain... I'm currently unwell and it's late...gimme a break.  :D

My first impression is yes -- with a capital Y. I didn't actually capitalize the Y because I wanted the added emphasis of the em dash without repeating myself...  :D

I actually think this would work well in conjunction with the drag and hover. The drag for just quick comparisons, the highlight for more thoughtful analysis. Such a simple addition would surely add a lot of usability.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Winge October 14, 2013, 10:19:05 PM
If that's not how you do it, what is? I don't actually see any way to compare items otherwise.
Left click an item on the left, drag it over to a slot, and (before dropping) look at the comparison :)

Ah, I see. Actually, what's stopping you from making this work both ways. Let's say you click a slot (which is now highlighted) then mousing over anything in your inventory could also show the changes.

I was thinking the same thing myself.  I often want to take a part I consider 'sub-par' and compare it to my inventory; sometimes, this happens more often then checking new parts against my current loadout.

Do note that I am CDO, and have my own way of handling customization that, to most people, is very belt-sanderesque.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Teal_Blue October 14, 2013, 10:29:44 PM
just real quick on trying to get beta access, the key i have, or code is listed as not valid when i put it in.  :(
Am i missing something?

please send email if you can, thank you!

-Teal

: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: BobTheJanitor October 14, 2013, 10:53:56 PM
Edit: ^^^^ You shouldn't have to put in a key, just click the opt in button. I'm assuming that key is for super special extra hidden beta access, as opposed to 'anyone can opt in' beta access.

As far as mouseover comparisons go. Yes. Definitely. I would see that as the obvious evolution of the current system where you click a part and then get everything that would fit in that slot and can mouse over each item to see what it would change if you swapped it. The new screen is fine, and everything fits on it, and I can actually see all my stats and see what goes up and down. That's good! But... drag and compare is definitely going backwards on the usability scale. And apparently it's not idiot proof, since I couldn't figure it out until someone mentioned it. Ideally everything on the screen should be trying as hard as possible to ease the process of comparing tons of items to tons of slots and coming up with something approaching optimal.

Now as far as this nasal fire, I think if my exos could shoot fire out of their chromed nostrils, that would definitely be worth looking into. Get the marketing boys on that right away. (And I got the reference without the link, I still have the original radio drama on tape around here somewhere... I get extra nerd points for that right? Can those be traded in for cash?)
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: ScrObot October 15, 2013, 02:52:52 AM
Ah, I see. Actually, what's stopping you from making this work both ways. Let's say you click a slot (which is now highlighted) then mousing over anything in your inventory could also show the changes.

This; it should work both ways, with mouseovers. The 1.001 update is definitely a great step in the right direction, but the drag to compare doesn't feel "right" to me. This is how I envision it:

When you select a part (which highlights it and dims all the invalid slots in the current exo), mousing over any of those slots shows the comparisons. Clicking on a slot would install the part there. Alternately, clicking on the part again would deselect it.

Going the other direction, when you click a slot (which highlights the the slot and filters the parts list appropriately), mousing over any of the parts shows the comparisons. Clicking on a part would install it into the selected slot. Alternately, clicking on the slot again would deselect it.

Going a step further in usability, it'd be nice if when you selected a part or slot, the popup showing its details persisted, and when you mouse over the slot or part, the "normal" popup showing that item's details showed as well. I miss seeing the full details on both parts in the new screen. Obviously there'd have to be a little massaging to make the "persisted" details popup to be positioned correctly to not obscure anything (e.g. computer parts would display the popup above the computer components, propulsion and right side weapons would pop it to the left of those boxes, top row weapons would pop below those boxes).

And also +1 to using the mousewheel to switch exos, since there's no scrolling box o' stats anymore. :)
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Misery October 15, 2013, 02:55:38 AM
Hm, this is a rather nice change to the equipment screen.

Though as others have mentioned the dragging-items bit is annoying.

Other than that though.... it should speed things up overall.  Very nice.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: ScrObot October 15, 2013, 03:13:22 AM
I'd also vote to incorporate the store into the new left panel, and allow buying and equipping in one step. Modify the buttons up top where "Unequipped, Equipped and Archive" currently are to include labels:
Parts: [Unequipped] [Equipped] [Archive]
Store: [Purchase] [Sell] [Buyback]

Also, using the mousewheel to scroll when the left panel has too many items should be implemented -- perhaps instead of the previous suggestion of using it to switch exos (unless it could be smart enough to always switch exos, even when hovering over the left panel, UNLESS there was a scrollbar present, in which case it would scroll as long as you were hovered over the left panel).
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Histidine October 15, 2013, 04:20:15 AM
Machinery noises when a part is added/removed would be a nice audio cue.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: PokerChen October 15, 2013, 07:46:36 AM
Machinery noises when a part is added/removed would be a nice audio cue.

Not too loud though. Inventory noise inevitably gets repetitive.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: nas1m October 15, 2013, 07:48:04 AM
This is how I envision it:

When you select a part (which highlights it and dims all the invalid slots in the current exo), mousing over any of those slots shows the comparisons. Clicking on a slot would install the part there. Alternately, clicking on the part again would deselect it.

Going the other direction, when you click a slot (which highlights the the slot and filters the parts list appropriately), mousing over any of the parts shows the comparisons. Clicking on a part would install it into the selected slot. Alternately, clicking on the slot again would deselect it.

And also +1 to using the mousewheel to switch exos, since there's no scrolling box o' stats anymore. :)
This sounds like the optimal solution to me. Seconded :D.
The drag-based part compare definitely feels a little clunky.
+1 on the mouse wheel based exo switching as well.
Otherwise, a big improvement over the multi window solution!
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: nas1m October 15, 2013, 07:50:08 AM
I'd also vote to incorporate the store into the new left panel, and allow buying and equipping in one step. Modify the buttons up top where "Unequipped, Equipped and Archive" currently are to include labels:
Parts: [Unequipped] [Equipped] [Archive]
Store: [Purchase] [Sell] [Buyback]

Also, using the mousewheel to scroll when the left panel has too many items should be implemented -- perhaps instead of the previous suggestion of using it to switch exos (unless it could be smart enough to always switch exos, even when hovering over the left panel, UNLESS there was a scrollbar present, in which case it would scroll as long as you were hovered over the left panel).
Seconded as well!
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Aziphos October 15, 2013, 08:41:09 AM
The new equipment screen is really nice.
I like the drag & drop function is very comfortable...its so much easier to compare one peace of equipment to all peaces the bot is equiped with.
At 1280*1024 some of the aren't properly shown if they are too large, especially power is a bit messy.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Billick October 15, 2013, 10:25:06 AM
Looks like the new screen is a big improvement.  It probably needs some tweaking.  I think all the suggestions here are really good. 
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Goekhan October 15, 2013, 12:03:11 PM
You guys are working on 1.002 already. I haven't still finished reporting stuff on 1.001! :P
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Billick October 15, 2013, 12:15:25 PM
I think they always put that in there as a placeholder.  They are "still working on" (http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AVWW_-_Post-Launch_Series_3_Release_Notes) v1.208 of Valley 1  :D
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Elcs October 15, 2013, 02:48:51 PM
Would this patch affect the balance of Trap Level/Turrets in an existing 1.00 game?

Got quite a pivotal save on a Hard Mode about 3/5th of the way through the game which is quite a nice testbed (decent number of items, options and credits to spend)
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: Goekhan October 15, 2013, 04:31:26 PM
Aside from turret range, I don't think you'll get affected much.
: Re: 1.001 *beta* out now.
: muttala October 16, 2013, 12:19:17 PM

Hi,
Just newly pick up the game, like it so far.
I wonder could we make it 1024X768 instead of 1280X768 for the old display setting?


p/s:
I kind of like the EXO look, but it seems to be a bit small at the corner
many games actually use one single portrait with many slot to equip.

I notice we have more slots then typical games, but if we could enlarge the EXO at center and removing other body parts.
and put all the slots within it or simply beside it (with label), the benefits are as below:

1) Better picture = better way to appreciate of each different EXO in details - create more immersion to the EXO instead of its body parts.
2) Easier / Faster visual recognition when switching EXO
3) Reduce the busy feeling of many parts crowded around the inventory screen, no need to squeeze