Author Topic: [RESOLVED] Framerate Issue  (Read 25673 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2012, 11:52:18 pm »
But this is a huge discovery, this.. this is like inventing the wheel.
Actually, this is like discovering that your car pops its wheels off and relies on reactive propulsion when it realizes you're just driving two blocks to a friend's place, and the solution is for either you or your friend to move further away.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2012, 12:04:06 am »
Well the issues is not as crazy as it sounds. As I said, the GPU likely powers up based on actual gpu-load, probably if it exceeds 50%, so the answer to your performance problem is to crank EVERYTHING UP ;p .. and play "When I am crazy" on loop ;p

(the following is under the assumption that this guess is correct)

So basically, the driver is using a really bad clock/power/whatever throttling algorithm, or at least one with a major hole in it, where it doesn't scale up in cases where it should be. This leads to paradoxic cases where increasing load can cause an increase in performance, due to triggering the cutoff for "upping the throttle" that the driver is currently setting too high.

As much as I hate to say it, this is something to complain to ATI about, not Chris and Kieth.

Does ATI provide some sort of "performance/system tools" that let you tweak the cutoffs used for power saving? If so, you may be able to use that to work around ATI's currently poor default choices.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 12:07:42 am by techsy730 »

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2012, 01:27:02 am »
Adaptive clocking and power management is done in the GPU Bios afaik. So a driver setting likely would not solve it ... and knowing ATI this will never be fixed. How would you even communicate this flaw to ATI ? You'd need to somehow circumvent the stupid support and get some gpu or driver engineer on the line. And then you'd have to actually get the one who made this particular card, and it's bios.

Doesn't seem like something that has a chance to be fixed...

But this is a huge discovery, this.. this is like inventing the wheel.
Actually, this is like discovering that your car pops its wheels off and relies on reactive propulsion when it realizes you're just driving two blocks to a friend's place, and the solution is for either you or your friend to move further away.

Which is a good solution if your goal is to conserve power as much as possible .. good, but totally braindead !
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 01:31:55 am by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Castruccio

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2012, 08:04:59 am »


Does ATI provide some sort of "performance/system tools" that let you tweak the cutoffs used for power saving? If so, you may be able to use that to work around ATI's currently poor default choices.

They do provide a set of power management tools, but even using these to tweak the card so that it is at "100% performance" still doesn't make the card kick in on AVWW.


Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2012, 10:22:46 am »
Well as far as GPU issues go this one is kinda like the famous cold bug for the nvidia 6600 (a cold bug is when the chip is too cold to power up and/or needs to run at full load in 2D mode for a while to get hot before it switches in 3D-mode) this can happen at ROOM TEMP... also a very famous extremely rare GPU issue in normal operation, one I had myself. That card was hilarious to use in winter, if below 20°C the card would not go into 3D-mode at all. This sounds like a small issue.. unless you have very efficient cooling and a open window when it's 5°C outside...

Look at the bright side, you can watch Twilight go Insane FOREVER EVER EVER EVER EVER ;p

This issue likely appeared now because the procedural clouds are gone, so the game has EXTREMELY low gpu load even if hundreds of enemies are on-screen. Kinda makes me wish x4000 would push the graphics to the extreme ;p more specific shaders and such
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Offline x4000

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2012, 11:29:44 pm »
Hmmm.... for some reason the forums stopped notifying me about this thread, but I just found it again and that is... crazy.  I'd heard the latest ATI drivers were bad, but I had no idea.

This goes against everything that we normally try to do, which is to make this thing run on a toaster.  But then... the actual computers... want to run like... a toaster?  WTF!!?

I could always put in something that just writes some extra garbage to the GPU behind the rest of the scene so that you don't have too little going on, but that just seems... dirty.  Not only that, it clearly wouldn't help if it's a question of texture speed: having more textures in use (actually, not even that, just more textured quads) was giving you worse performance.  So apparently there's some sort of magic number of load that we need to be in for this particular ATI card to actually run the game at a good speed, but that's really something that's kind of out of my hands.

I'll have to take a look at the unity forums and see if anyone else is encountering this and what they did if so.  Maybe there's some sort of magic solution.  But otherwise it's looking like it's a ball in ATI's court... which is bad news for the affected and for me (since many of the affected will think it's my fault).  GAH!
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Offline Castruccio

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2012, 11:46:25 pm »
Yeah it is a pretty unfortunate thing.  On the bright side, the game is perfectly playable with 2 youtube videos running at 720p in the background. 

Offline x4000

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2012, 12:14:13 am »
That's good, if quite odd.
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2012, 08:34:24 am »
One for the FAQ!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2012, 01:13:56 pm »
One for the FAQ!
Quote
Q: How do I make AVWW run faster?
A: Watch My Little Pony, and AVWW will run away from you as fast as possible.
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Offline tigersfan

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2012, 01:21:16 pm »
Keith, you owe me a new keyboard! :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2012, 01:36:43 pm »
That's made of awesome!

I talked to some other devs I know about the problem, and they were suggesting that we might not be giving a consistent enough load to the GPU thanks to some batching that we're doing.  So what I'm going to do is make it so that the game writes a few bits of useless stuff offscreen using unity's normal rendering pipeline.  That will keep the GPU constantly in at least mild use, which might fix the issue.  I also plan on making a settings option so that you can crank up the amount of useless stuff it draws in that manner, so that you can experiment with it on your machine if need be (since I am unable to do so directly).

My hope is that by just writing a little bit of stuff on a more continuous basis, that the game engine will trick the graphics card drivers into behaving without actually your having to turn anything up more heavily.  Because if you weren't running two youtube videos in the background, you could definitely get even better performance out of the game -- that's the real gut-punch there.  By running those videos you're getting better performance than you were, sure -- and by a large margin, too -- but it's still then making the game fight those videos for the hardware and that's lowering the framerate you really should be getting from the game.  There has to be a better way.

One of the devs also suggested that there might be some settings in the Catalyst Control Center that might better let you tune this anyhow.  But ideally this would work without that sort of tuning because even if you tune it and fix it for yourself, other people are still going to think the framerate in our game strangely stinks if they have your hardware.

Anyway, I'll look into that stuff after we're finished on our memory leak hunt.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2012, 01:46:12 pm »
One test you can try in the meantime, if you don't mind:

1. Don't run any videos in the background or anything, so that you're seeing the bad performance again.  Watch the FPS.

2. Open the chat window (T key by default, I think; I do it by rote) and make sure that the textbox there has keyboard focus.

3. Does your FPS go up at all?  Just a little bit, or as much as playing those videos?

The textbox there uses some different draw methods and is sending its data to your GPU on more of a streaming basis rather than a batched basis, so it's possible that just that tiny bit of streamed data might be enough to kick your GPU into turning on its fans and treating AVWW like a game rather than like Aero.  Or it might do nothing, but it's worth a shot and would tell me a lot in terms of what to do with optimizing this further in a coming release.
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Offline Castruccio

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2012, 02:08:06 pm »
Sure, I'll be happy to help out in any way that I can.  I tried your textbox test and the frame rate does not change in any  perceptible way with the box open.

Just to give you some idea of how dramatic the change is with the two 720p videos open: I just did a test in an underground cavern and with no videos open the fps hovers at 20.  With two videos open, it hovers at 55. 

Offline x4000

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Re: Framerate Issue
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2012, 02:28:52 pm »
Okay, thanks for the info!  I really feel like you should be hovering more in the 80s or 90s if it were doing things properly and you didn't have the video, just to show what I think it should be if the driver were just kicking in without the videos.
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