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Mage Class Design

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x4000:
Cheers, it's my pleasure.

Well, if we were doing wholesale swaps of one spell in one class for a different class having a spell (in other words, not really changing spells, just rearranging which classes have which spells), that is also easy.  It might not work thematically in all cases, though, and I'd want to avoid giving a red spell to a blue class, etc.

In terms of other things like the damage, speed, caliber, range, and so forth, those would all be easy tweaks.  Technically if we wanted to increase the number of shots for some of them, we could do that; the icon wouldn't be able to change, but that wouldn't be a crisis I don't think.

abdulmuhsee:
Alright, so basically, for example, the level 4 class "Sunbinder" has a spell called "Solar Sine", which could be swapped with the level 5 class "Beastmaster" spell called "Bone Whip."  However, the actual names of the spells and icons would remain the same, so it wouldn't really make sense for Sunbinder to have a Bone Whip, thematically speaking.

Thematically, even though Beastmaster should have the dinosaur transformation so he at least has something that involves beasts, it wouldn't make sense for the Cindermaster to have a dinosaur icon next to his spell class if he didn't have it, or for Beastmaster to not have that dinosaur icon, so I guess that wouldn't be worth changing.  Trust me, I have no desire to mess up the game any more than you do :-).

Even without doing any specific spell swapping for balancing of the classes (since that could inadvertently mess up the flavor), I think just changing the damage or speed of one of the spells in a few of the classes could make a huge difference in making the class useful without doing anything earth-shattering. 

Off the top of my head, Thicketmaster would be much more useful if the secondary knockback spell was faster at something like 17 m/s so I could actually hit something with it.  Or, instead of speeding it up, give it 3 projectiles instead of 1.  Then it would resemble somewhat of a knockback wave and go along with the name "Thorn Mass."  It already has high cooldown and that could make up for its primary spell being only a straight-shot.

If you'd like, I can suggest a short list of changes.  I think it's really only the level 5 tier that truly needs it; with lower tiers, one always has the next spell cache to look forward to regardless, but once you've reached the final defining moment of what your character is, you need those customization options to be viable.

madcow:
It's been awhile since I've played, but I found more or less tier 5 felt well balanced. If anything, it made all the areas seem trivial to spam the "artillery" like spells (the ones that break apart after hitting a target) while running across the levels without much thought (the exception being bosses and the overlord keep). If anything (again going on memory) tier 4 felt on the weak side compared to tier 3, just because of the multishot spells in tier 3 are so amazing. Then tier 5 was for me a cakewalk to the final showdown, which was a decent challenge.

This is all based off memory when I finally beat AVWW2 awhile ago - and certainly RNG in terms of what classes you get might be a factor as well.

abdulmuhsee:

--- Quote from: madcow on June 14, 2013, 06:37:14 pm ---It's been awhile since I've played, but I found more or less tier 5 felt well balanced. If anything, it made all the areas seem trivial to spam the "artillery" like spells (the ones that break apart after hitting a target) while running across the levels without much thought (the exception being bosses and the overlord keep).

This is all based off memory when I finally beat AVWW2 awhile ago - and certainly RNG in terms of what classes you get might be a factor as well.
--- End quote ---

Those statements are contradictory, since not all tier 5 classes are able to spam artillery spells as you mentioned.  If anything, you're illustrating their lack of balance if the one you were using made the areas seem trivial.

Did you attempt to play with the vastly less powerful classes I mentioned, and what difficulty were you on?  I'm not trying to come off as hostile, but I have way too many recent hours playing multiple times through this game from which I'm drawing my observations, and I have to defend my position from what you remember of the game in passing.

madcow:
I just went in to check, I won on skilled and had access to: Megalord, Annihilist, Cindermaster, Radiantist, and Glacician.

I used all of the classes and of them Annihilist felt like the weakest due to its slow shots.  Radiantist I wasn't a huge fan of due to the niche use of the second/third ability, though the triple shot is fantastic - drone shot always annoyed me, and the third spell I never played around with enough to get used to.

Glacian and megalord were definetely my favorite classes, and I would say of those classes I had access to, all of them made most areas really easy (except overlord keep, the deep, and bosses), except maybe the Annihilist which doesn't have much rapid-fire access.

I haven't played as much with the tier 5/4 classes as I have with the others, so I couldn't say what the other classes were like. Restarting every major patch kept me pretty much grounded on tiers 1-3.

Edit: Not to knock on your take on things. But I was throwing out my experience, where the tier 5 classes felt like a fun toy, and a nice reward for clearing out things after going through the game.

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