Author Topic: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)  (Read 2103 times)

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« on: June 12, 2013, 05:15:45 PM »
So are there any strategies for getting past a room full of giant shadow bats?  They're the huge bats that shoot the purple balls that sound like phasors.

I'm on Master Hero Difficulty at level 13 trying to get the level 5 mage spells, but I've already died five times attempting to navigate their room.  Their projectiles are lightning fast and do 4.6(!) hearts of damage each. 

It's already impossible to be at full health when entering their room, and when each seemingly unavoidable hit takes half my health away, the situation seems hopeless.  There's no way to damage them without getting into their line of fire and taking a purple ball to the face at instant speed.

I haven't even gotten to the henchman room yet!  Even if I do get past the bat room, I doubt it's going to get any easier.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 05:47:01 PM »
It really depends on the situation you are in in terms of the terrain and so forth.  But a lot of the indirect spells were created for just this sort of purpose, when the enemy shots are too damaging or too fast for you to comfortably or reasonably avoid.  So things like the risers, or the drones, or the ricochets, or a variety of other things along those lines are basically the tools (obviously not all available at tier 2).

The drones are deceptively useful, I see a lot of people disregarding them.  Even without drones, though, you can use straight shots in some very interesting ways (it's just easier with drones).  Basically: don't try to dodge the shots.  Just try to keep moving laterally to where the shot is coming from (usually vertically via jumping and falling).  That way by the time the shot reaches you, you're already gone.  Then just fire your shot with the right timing to hit the enemy as you pass them.  That way you're not trying to dodge and shoot, you're just implicitly dodging as you line up your shot.  Drones make that easier, but you can do it with pretty well anything.

Hope that helps!
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 07:34:55 PM »
The shadow bats are never conveniently placed behind cover where I can take pot-shots at them; usually they're hovering up and down right in the middle of a giant open space you have to pass and there's no way of really knowing they're there until you're already hit or hear the dreaded phasor noise.  I'd have an easier time facing all 5 henchmen.

4.6 hearts is just way too much damage for a fast-traveling, low-cooldown attack, and as soon as one appears it's game over unless you can manage to outrun it without running into a horde of other undesirables.

I wholeheartedly challenge you to make an attempt at the level 5 mage spells on turn 40 at level 13 at the same difficulty.  I honestly don't think it can be done unless the monster changeup after you die each time turns out to be just right and devoid of shadow bats.  I'm practically on try 20.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 09:01:41 PM »
A few notes:

1. Bear in mind the damage scales with the difficulty.

2. Also bear in mind that the mix of monsters in the overlord keep and the level up towers is based on what monsters you encountered in the wild.  In other words, there's no particular fondness for shadow bats in this room implicit to the room.  These are "large flying" monsters, which actually are pretty common in terms of not hard to find in the various levels (unlike, say, the stationary flying which are pretty darn rare).  If you are seeing tons of shadow bats and little else, then I'm guessing you have not been to many areas with flying creatures aside from The Deep?  Simply visiting some other biomes (need anything from some caves?) will drastically dilute the concentration of shadow bats.

3. If you want to zip and post your world, I'm more than happy to take your challenge and/or get you through that area with some dev commands.  The odds of me recreating your specific scenario are next to nil, though, because of how specific the RNG is and how your past actions have played into the current situation (both in terms of number of turns taken thus far, types of biomes visited, etc).
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 09:24:07 PM »
I really should never have visited "The Deep;" I had no idea that's where the shadow bats came from.

Hey, if you'll take the challenge, I'd like to see if it's possible.  Methinks you'll be smashing your keyboard before you're able to beat it.  I'd rather not cheat through it with dev commands, but the better part of my day has been devoted to getting my arse handed to me in this game and I can't even sleep until I know this darned thing is beat.

I'm also not sure how many times I can die after the oblivion crystal is destroyed; it'd be a shame to lose due to everyone being dead after making it this far.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 09:54:34 PM »
All right, you got me. ;)

It really depends on when those bats show up, but in that room with the switches there is just not any cover, as you say.  I was dead before realizing I was going to be shot at.  Not the sort of room I was picturing.

In for a release tonight:

* Giant Shadow Bats no longer show up outside of The Deep.

Cheers! :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 11:10:24 PM »
Yes, acknowledgement!  My endless arse-kicking was not for naught!

I think keeping those bats penned up in The Deep would be immensely helpful for the rest of the game (at least on Master Hero), since they apparently spread throughout the levels if you even step foot inside a Deep tile without purifying it. 

That room with the switches isn't even close to the only room it's been like that; just imagine getting creamed immediately as you attempt to go across that chasm from the armory to the other side of the keep, or all of the rooms where you have to drop into an unknown expanse from a ladder... into a purple death phasor that you can't see until you've already been hit.

Anyways, you can see my frustration after spending hours in that state of affairs.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2013, 12:02:33 PM »
All righty, new version is now out that removes those bats from everywhere that isn't The Deep: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13364.0.html

Anyway, great catch and hopefully you can get through without getting the arse kicking this time. :)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2013, 03:11:05 PM »
Great, I'll give it a try today and hopefully be able to finish it up!

Edit: Wow, I even get my screen name in the credits?  That's pretty cool!

I do have a couple more things I've noticed, BTW, one being that there is apparently no way to level up at level up towers after the oblivion crystal is destroyed.

I visited a tower to maybe get that extra edge, killed Wordrak(sp) for good, then the door that said "Press E to go through" took me directly back outside with no green glowy tower.  The level up tower remains intact on the world map and you can visit it again with no way to use it, and there is no message that "The majority of your work is done here, do you still want to enter?" type of message.

Update: Finally finished off Demonaica; with the giant shadow bats gone, it was just a matter of being careful and giving it a few tries, except when it came to Demonaica himself, where the only viable strategy was to quickly overwhelm him with damage before he could hit you.  Anyways, glad that's over!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 06:39:51 PM by abdulmuhsee »

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2013, 09:27:49 AM »
Awesome, glad you made it through!

In terms of the level-up towers thing... were you already at maximum level perhaps?
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline abdulmuhsee

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2013, 03:24:20 PM »
Well, if level 13 is the maximum level, then yes.

Offline x4000

  • Chris Park, Arcen Games Founder and Lead Designer
  • Administrator
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,161
Re: Giant Shadow Bat (Valley2)
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2013, 03:30:25 PM »
Holy cow, no.  It's level 21.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!