Arcen Games

General Category => A Valley Without Wind 1 & 2 => AVWW Brainstorming => : superking December 06, 2011, 08:50:11 AM

: Working of shields
: superking December 06, 2011, 08:50:11 AM
The various elemental shields seem more trouble than they are worth as they are implemented at the moment- a 1 second burst of protection. It is difficult to gauge when to activate the shield given that its protection runs out so swiftly, and fiddly to keep doing so in time to bosses that keep spamming out attacks

Suggestion:
change the shield mechanic to be constant: eg. as long as the shield button/key is held down (& maybe with a menu option to make it a toggle), the shield is active- during which it slowly drains mana. however, when it takes damage, that damage is translated into a moderate loss of mana proportional to the damage of the attack whilst to mitigate this, shields have damage resistance to their chosen element.

this might make sheilding more like regenerating cover and less like reflex-driven bursts of invunerability, and would work nicely with using shields as a counter to enviromental threats (eg. snowstorms, acidic pools/mist, cave ins, fire etc)
: Re: Working of shields
: eRe4s3r December 06, 2011, 09:20:23 AM
Fully for that change, shields instant activated by pressing the SHIELD key, let us assign its protection element somehow else...

Or even let us improve our shield with craft-able stuff (and thus have that define its protection element) ;p
: Re: Working of shields
: zebramatt December 06, 2011, 12:39:10 PM
Conversely, I'd be for increasing shield time just a little bit - twice what it is now, for example - but also giving them a sort of health property so they 'die' after taking an amount of damage.

I'm in the twitch-reflex camp, though I find them pretty ineffectual for much of anything right now.
: Re: Working of shields
: goodgimp December 06, 2011, 01:10:37 PM
Shields could start with Max strength and then diminish quickly over time. Strikes against the shield would further subtract from that number. That way you could increase the duration so its not tedious while still rewarding quick reflexes / timing on bringing the shield up.
: Re: Working of shields
: Dizzard December 06, 2011, 01:10:47 PM
Honestly I haven't crafted a single shield since the update....
: Re: Working of shields
: goodgimp December 06, 2011, 01:16:01 PM
Honestly I think shields would also work well with the Heat mechanic discussed in the mana thread as well. They could provide mitigation until they overload and shut down, then you need to wait through a cooldown to charge them back up.
: Re: Working of shields
: Hyfrydle December 06, 2011, 03:34:03 PM
I only used shields once when they were first patched in since then I've found them not much use. This may be just for my style of play but I would certainly welcome some kind of shield mechanic that improves on the current version.
: Re: Working of shields
: Hearteater December 06, 2011, 04:18:16 PM
We'll probably need to re-evaluate once the projectile speeds are changed.  That being said, I think I'd prefer something closer to Ikaruga in design, where the shields are awesome against one element, but make you very susceptible to the other.  Although not as extreme as Ikaruga and not always on.  Say a water shield might last two seconds and absorb up to 4000 water damage, but increase fire damage taken by 100%.
: Re: Working of shields
: x4000 December 06, 2011, 04:28:05 PM
It's something I have some interest in changing up a bit, but not yet; there's too many other things that need to change first in the next week or two, and then this can be better reevaluated in light of what is essentially a very different game by then, heh. :)
: Re: Working of shields
: keith.lamothe December 06, 2011, 04:37:12 PM
It's something I have some interest in changing up a bit, but not yet; there's too many other things that need to change first in the next week or two, and then this can be better reevaluated in light of what is essentially a very different game by then, heh. :)
Yea, it's necessary to do a lot of simultaneous changes right now because of timeline and there just being a lot of things that we want to do differently, but we don't have to gratuitously pile on to the list of simultaneous redesigns :)
: Re: Working of shields
: FallingStar December 06, 2011, 04:45:41 PM
Pretty much with Hearteater, if the design is going towards slower projectiles (less twitch) then a short burst shield is basically the same as a block move in a lot of games, which is a fine mechanic.  Just depends on how much is happening on screen. 

Long term, shields feel a bit less like a core need if the health system is being redefined to allow health tank sorts of mechanics, especially if that is being considered a limiter of how far you can/should adventure.  Shields on a regenerating mana mechanic could throw a bit of a wrench into it if the shields are too effective.
: Re: Working of shields
: keith.lamothe December 06, 2011, 04:52:15 PM
Long term, shields feel a bit less like a core need if the health system is being redefined to allow health tank sorts of mechanics, especially if that is being considered a limiter of how far you can/should adventure.  Shields on a regenerating mana mechanic could throw a bit of a wrench into it if the shields are too effective.
There is a balancing act there, yes, but even though I'm firmly in the "finite-health" camp I think it's a very good idea to have ways of "extending" how much you can get out of that finite health by skillful execution.  One side is strategic thinking: being prepared and "winning" most fights before you're even in them.  Another side is tactical execution: when to "take cover" (shield), where to be, how fast you are, etc.  I generally don't like twitch stuff in games, but a little is generally fine and AVWW's form of it has been surprisingly enjoyable for me.
: Re: Working of shields
: x4000 December 19, 2011, 11:47:27 AM
New mechanics for next version:

* The mechanics of shields have been changed around dramatically.  Aside from the individual elemental resistances, they all now work the following way:
** A magical shield bursts forth to provide protection from up to 5000 incoming damage.  Drains mana constantly while in use, so  use the shield a second time to turn it off.
: Re: Working of shields
: Toll December 19, 2011, 12:16:49 PM
What level of mana drain are we talking? Something that actually depletes your mana, or at a low enough level to reduce your regeneration?
: Re: Working of shields
: x4000 December 19, 2011, 12:21:19 PM
It depletes your mana, but would take something like 10ish seconds of use (depending on your character's max mana) to completely deplete your mana.
: Re: Working of shields
: tigersfan December 19, 2011, 01:08:16 PM
They do deplete your mana, but so far, in the testing I've done, I think they are a nice improvement. You absolutely can't walk around with your shields on all the time, but, if used sparingly, then can be a really nice tool in your arsenal.