The end of the end of the world

[Itchykobu]

I haven't posted in a while, though I've been playing pretty steadily, and restarting games a lot to see how the new systems impact the early game (so I'm still not very far in this game...continent 1 still since the introduction of the continent system).

I liked the mechanic where you had to destroy the overlord before the continent sank - I thought it gave an awesome goal, motivation, and terminal point to the continent. It was also a nice nod to Kefka, Lavos, and other world-destroying iconic bosses. In short, I think I'll miss this portion of the game, and just wanted to throw that sentiment out there since the new patch log shows that being removed.

I'm sure that since this is still beta, and given the excellence of previous Arcen titles (I never feel aimless in AI War...must...murder...AI...), the end result will still be a very engaging title.

[Toll]

Personally, I rather like that change; I really dislike only ever having X turns to do something, or you lose. Sure, it's nice from time to time, but to have it constantly hanging over your head... it'd just put a whole lot of pressure on me.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, I had thought that people wanted to feel threatened by the game, so I added it.  I was wrong

[Itchykobu]

I think those two replies both capture the idea that sometimes a player does want to feel that there are high stakes in a battle. Given that spells and such currently don't carry over from continent to continent, any possibility of an "End of the world" mission type (optional, as all mission types), that raises the stakes: if you lose, the continent is gone, and if you win, you get to carry something over that you normally wouldn't?

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse at this point 

[x4000]

I don't think you're beating a dead horse -- and I do think that a "more threatening" model where the you can have a continent sinks into the sea is something worth exploring.  However, that would be a mechanic that was only available on higher strategic difficulties (which we would bring back for something like this), and which has its own sets of both benefits and pitfalls in some fashion.

In short, it's kind of a whole game mode in and of itself.  Possibly it doesn't need to be a game mode, even -- maybe it's some sort of doomsday device that, once you interact with it (and it warns you), it causes the destruction of the continent in X more CP, but you get Y benefit if you can beat the overlord before that time.  But this doomsday device option is only available when the continent is still tier 1-2 or something.

I don't know exactly the mechanics that we'd want to use, because we're pressed for time and haven't put a lot of thought into it yet.  But I do know that, if it's something that can be done in a straightforward fashion along those lines, adding value for people like you who want that sort of thing without impacting players who clearly have no interest in being actively threatened in this genre of game... it's something that I'm interested in trying to squeeze in prior to 1.0.  And if it's "bigger than a breadbox" of a feature, so to speak, then that's something to explore sometime post-1.0, but still something I want to look at at some point.

[zebramatt]

I think those two replies both capture the idea that sometimes a player does want to feel that there are high stakes in a battle. Given that spells and such currently don't carry over from continent to continent, any possibility of an "End of the world" mission type (optional, as all mission types), that raises the stakes: if you lose, the continent is gone, and if you win, you get to carry something over that you normally wouldn't?

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse at this point 

I was actually going to suggest the very same thing when I first read the new patch notes, in fact.

It would be nice for you to be able to perhaps embark on a mission chain which, from the moment you begin, then starts a countdown ticking to the destruction of the continent. Make this fact obvious enough when accepting the mission, and give the player the opportunity to not take on the mission chain; and you capture the same feeling of threat without forcing it on players.

Then it's just a case of inventivising that mission chain appropriately - like, maybe it lets you kill the overlord for that continent much more quickly than you would otherwise have been able (unlocking things early or whatever, so all you're actually gaining is time) - so some players take up the challenge and others avoid the risk without it feeling like they've taken a non-optimum path, and Robert's your mother's brother.

[zebramatt]

Aaaaaand... ninjas attack!

[Toll]

The doomsday device sounds like a real nice solution, I must say. I can definitely see myself activating it on a few continents just for the challenge of it, while leaving it untouched most of the time.

[Itchykobu]

Awesome, thanks for the replies. This game just keeps getting better and better.

[x4000]

I'm moving this to brainstorming, to keep it where we can keep track of it.  Keith and I are pretty tied up this week, but if folks figure out something of what they are looking for, we can see about trying to make time for it.  I am wary of promising anything because 1.0 is so close in a lot of respects (mid to late March or bust!).  And we want to make sure that the main game mode is stellar before we start tacking on lots of other game modes.  But I know that it's something that interests me greatly, if only I had more time.

[zebramatt]

It would make a great first DLC!

[Itchykobu]

Arcen needs more devs!

[x4000]

It would make a great first DLC!

That's true, if we made a REALLY big feature out of it, it could fit as DLC.  Granted, we're planning to be doing tons of free DLC after 1.0, and paid expansions like with AI War, and something like this could fit as either depending on how elaborate people want it to be.  Most free DLC is more bite-size individually, but there's a lot of it.  Whereas the paid expansions have that sort of thing PLUS some sort of giant marquee feature(s) that really change up the game in major (optional) ways.  This could fit as either, depending on how it was done.

Arcen needs more devs!

That's true, although we barely have the money for the ones we have at the moment, heh.  And I really don't want to grow past a certain pretty small size as a company.  But once this core gameplay stuff is done, and all the polish for 1.0, we'll really be able to focus more on individual bits of content like we did during the 3.0 and 5.0 eras of AI War  (2.0 of AI War was a polish and reinvention era, and 4.0 was an ENORMOUS reinvention era).

[Endymion]

Doomsday device being activated by player sounds a bit weird so I think something like a mission to destroy one(along with the possible reward) might sound better. Also I think if the destruction would only become completely irreversible around tier 5(or never) but just get harder to do with each tier and come at the cost of some unique but minor reward more people would be happy with it.

[x4000]

Doomsday device being activated by player sounds a bit weird so I think something like a mission to destroy one(along with the possible reward) might sound better. Also I think if the destruction would only become completely irreversible around tier 5(or never) but just get harder to do with each tier and come at the cost of some unique but minor reward more people would be happy with it.

That reminds me a bit of Fallen Spire, actually -- and a structure like that could work well here, too.  But would definitely be post-1.0 in scope.