Author Topic: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.  (Read 4099 times)

Offline TechShaman

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Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« on: April 30, 2012, 06:45:53 PM »
Hey, first of I will state that I have always hated platforming games so the fact that AVWW now has me firmly addicted says only good things about the game! I've only played 12 hours or so of the game and I'm only continent 1 tier 3 so I apologise if my suggestion comes from ignorance of later game mechanics rather than experience :).

I have no problems with the amount and variety of spells in the game, I think its great. This game already has alot going on in regards to tactical choice and synergies particularly in regards to enchant selection. For me, the creation of synergies that are wide and varied and require thought is an aspect I really enjoy in games and is often most evident in RPG's but it is something that prevails across many genres.

What I would like to see is the creation of synergies between spells - as a way of expanding on the depth of the existing and future spells. As a crude example, a block of stone hit with a fireball becomes a magma ball which would do more damage and perhaps something else like slow an enemy or do damage over time. 40 spells that combine would provide for an exponential increase in tactical choice offered by the player. You could even combine the elements to provide for different types of elemental damage, ie a fire spell with a water spell = steam spell, water and earth = mud spell, miasma and earth = undeath spell. These are of course just suggestions however the idea that combining spells is like 1+1 = 2.5 rather than simply the addition of the individual spell effects.

 I understand this would be a balance issue but perhaps it could be something that is required to succeed at the higher difficulty levels rather than just adding HP/DMG to everything. Maybe an idea for an expansion?

TL;DR - the addition of interactions between spells that are greater than the sum of the individual spells is an aspect that I would LOVE to see implemented in AVWW! :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 07:04:10 PM »
I think that's an interesting take on combos, actually.  We had a big discussion about combo systems back in beta but never could come up with something that wasn't cheesy.

However, coming up with some special effects for particular spells would be really interesting:

- Shoot some fire projectile into a tidal pulse, and it gives off a steam cloud that combines the damage of the two plus bug in an area of effect.

- Shoot any spell through a creeping death spell and the other spell takes on the entropy element and gets the damage of the creeping death added to it; but the creeping death itself is destroyed in the process.

- Shoot rocks to set them on fire, like you note; a weaker form of meteor.

- Shoot lightning spells into tidal pulse spells to destroy the lightning spell but give the damage plus 1.25x damage to the new lightning-y tidal pulse.


That could actually work out interestingly for enemy spells, too; if you accidentally hit an amoeba's attack with your ball lightning, then that amoeba's water shot is suddenly supercharged as it comes toward you.  Etc.

That sort of interaction is complex to be sure, and I think that there are bigger fish to fry in the very short term.  But longer term if we had time to really sit down and design this out, I think it could be really interesting.  The risk is getting Magicka-style super spell effects that just everybody uses, but it would be interesting to explore.

Welcome to the forums!  Awesome first post. :)
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Offline madcow

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 08:34:48 PM »
This is a very cool idea, and just imagine the potential for combos from people playing co-op using each other's spells. So want.

Offline Drjones013

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 09:02:27 PM »
Really digging this idea, particularly if enchants from the player made a difference in the outcome.

Offline Wanderer

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 11:46:38 PM »
Thank you, THIS is an amazing idea to help foment multi-spell usage and experimentation.

Woot woot.  +1.  Nice work.  8)
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Offline Terraziel

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2012, 08:48:04 AM »
The problem I see is that system would become mostly useless to the player if they were using Projectile Speed enchants, some of the spells move so fast that they are hard to see let alone shoot with another spell.

Offline x4000

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
The problem I see is that system would become mostly useless to the player if they were using Projectile Speed enchants, some of the spells move so fast that they are hard to see let alone shoot with another spell.

In fact it might even create a desire to have some projectile speed diminishing enchants.

All of that seems okay to me -- you could play sans projectile speed enchants and go more for combos, or the projectile speed enchants as they are now make it so that you are more likely to actually hit a moving target with something like creeping death or similar.
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Offline madcow

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 09:39:48 AM »
Or you could add enchantments to speed up/slow down projectile speeds of certain colors only (rather than an across the board speed increase/decrease).

Offline x4000

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »
Or you could add enchantments to speed up/slow down projectile speeds of certain colors only (rather than an across the board speed increase/decrease).

That too.
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Offline Hunam

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 10:21:32 AM »
I really like this idea. Another possible effect could be that this opens up the oportunity for spell counters. For example, If I am quick I may be able to launch a rock through a fire spell to turn the spell back against the enemy and alter it at the same time.

Offline Penumbra

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 12:03:27 PM »
I really like this idea. Another possible effect could be that this opens up the oportunity for spell counters. For example, If I am quick I may be able to launch a rock through a fire spell to turn the spell back against the enemy and alter it at the same time.

There are quite a few examples in Bullet Hell games where using the enemy's ordinance  plays a key roll.  Sometimes they are captured or redirected. Very interesting.

This could also apply to shields, where casting fire spells through a fire shield could buff it, while water spells would weaken it. Maybe a buffed shield could heal the player, or redirect shots bounced off of it.

Edit: Actually, I think that shield idea could be good all on its own.

Offline TechShaman

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Re: Synergies as a way of increasing spell depth.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2012, 06:54:08 PM »
That could actually work out interestingly for enemy spells, too; if you accidentally hit an amoeba's attack with your ball lightning, then that amoeba's water shot is suddenly supercharged as it comes toward you.  Etc.

This would be fantastic, and would prevent spamming spells in areas that contain a particular type of enemy - adding an extra layer of complexity!