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General Category => AI War II => Topic started by: Ovalcircle on November 02, 2019, 03:21:46 PM

Title: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: Ovalcircle on November 02, 2019, 03:21:46 PM
There have been some players beating 10/10/10 (congratulations to them). However, since this game is a lot different from Classic, I'm a little unsure of what a pure 10/10/10 run really is.

1. Does having Hostile-to-all minor factions count? If not, what if you have a map where a Diff 10 AI is squashed between you and an Intensity 10 Nanocaust? What if you load up the game with a billion minor factions and by some serious RNG the AI is killed before you? If they do count, are there exceptions? Does a Devourer Golem count? What about the Zenith Trader?

2. Does the AI type have a factor in this? In Classic, there were two AI types that I almost always use against me. Cowardly, which runs away if it doesn't have a strength advantage, and Chivalrous, which doesn't target Advanced factories/Turret Controllers/anything that you can capture and then permanently lose.

3. AI options. You can turn off cross planet waves, or have no waves at all. Are there any options that should never be turned off?

4. Perma-death structures. There is an option to be able to rebuild Zenith power Generators. There is also an option to permanently lose metal harvesters. Are we going with Classic rules for this, or are we using a specific AI War 2 ruleset for these Perma-death options?

5. The Unit multiplier sliders/Fleet spawn sliders. There is an option to mulitply the damage done by turrets/fleetships/etcetera. There are also option that can change the spawn rate of Lone wolf fleets/Citadels/etcetera. Is there a specific rule for this? or case-by-case basis?

6. Fallen Spire/Nemesis/Interplanetary weapons. These are way off, but I believe are still worth discussing. Fallen Spire and Interplanetary weapons sound like a HUGE gamechanger in the "balance" of the game (if you look at classic). Are these allowed?

Edit: Since there are so many options, a case-by-case basis seems appropriate. I still think some ground rules should be established.
Title: Re: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: BadgerBadger on November 02, 2019, 03:32:48 PM
There are also sliders for AIP reducers.
Title: Re: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: Strategic Sage on November 03, 2019, 01:34:48 AM
I've been thinking about this from a slightly different angle.  With the option for just one AI, I think it's going to inherently be a lot easier than it was with the mandatory pair in Classic.  Ultimately there are enough options in the game - this was true in Classic as well but not to quite the same degree - that I think 'Difficulty 10 shouldn't be beatable' is simply too simplistic.  Definitely agree on the case-by-case in terms of how impressive a victory really is. 
Title: Re: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: Draco18s on November 03, 2019, 10:51:30 AM
I think 'Difficulty 10 shouldn't be beatable' is simply too simplistic.  Definitely agree on the case-by-case in terms of how impressive a victory really is.

That's always been true. I did a 10/10 game on a ten planet map (starting with 8 homeworlds) against two turrtle AIs.
Does that count as a 10/10 win bug? Not really.

Yes it was against two 10/10 AIs and I got the double godlike achievement, but its not a bug because I manipulated the playing field so heavily in my favor that there's no bug.

The "bug" part is taking on two 10/10 AIs on otherwise default settings (more or less): 80 planet map, minor factions at intensities of ~4, etc. For AIW2, the settings are going to be a bit different because the AIs themselves have been broken up into separate factions. But I'd have to say that adding an intensity 10 hostile-to-all faction is shifting the balance in the player's favor, as it is likely to kill an AI before it finds you.
Title: Re: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: zeusalmighty on November 03, 2019, 10:18:02 PM
I think canonically a true Dif 10 should have 2 AIs because the game fundamentally changes after you kill your first AI and creates a fuller experience

In other words, balance should be focused around two diff 10 AI

Classic has already set the precedent for this and frankly, it makes more sense in this game (things really shake up when the dead AI goes "rogue")
Title: Re: What qualifies as a 10/10/10 run?
Post by: x4000 on January 13, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
Puffin asked me to revisit this topic, which was definitely past due for me to look at.  So I've written up a full guide here: https://forums.arcengames.com/ai-war-ii/standards-for-'pure-10-or-1010'-wins-vs-'any-10-or-1010-wins'/
Cheers!