What features to cut for round 2

[kasnavada]

Actually, the only feature I'd want in AI War II compared to AI War 1 would be moddability. Everything else can go.

[Tridus]

Actually, the only feature I'd want in AI War II compared to AI War 1 would be moddability. Everything else can go.

But without a way to load assemblies or script, modders can't do things like add mechanics. XML only mods let you use what's already built, but that's it. So if what's there to use is itself severely limited, modders are heavily constrained in what they can do.

So yes, we've got moddability, but on a slim budget for built in mechanics to utilize, it's the diet coke of moddability.

[kasnavada]

Who said I didn't include that into moddability ?

In any case, just being able to replace existing buildings, ships, and messing with the "AI planet load-out generator" and keeping existing mechanics would be the step I'm most interested in. Changing mechanics would be a bonus - but yes, something I'd include in moddability, if possible. So I'm stating that. That said, only my opinion.

[Draco18s]

Who said I didn't include that into moddability ?

The problem is that making an API of that manner in a C# dll is not easy.
(And the player's ability to compile their own dll)

[Mánagarmr]

Player Race Choice.

I'm not sure this feature is meaningful enough (there've been a few comments about "how does this actually play differently?" with the answer being "well....") for the time investment to be worthwhile at this juncture.

How about not? This is the ONE key feature that really stands out among all the "Euhm, yeah so we upped performance and slapped some paint on the game".

[kasnavada]

Who said I didn't include that into moddability ?

The problem is that making an API of that manner in a C# dll is not easy.
(And the player's ability to compile their own dll)

What are you trying to say here exactly ?

[chemical_art]

Player Race Choice.

I'm not sure this feature is meaningful enough (there've been a few comments about "how does this actually play differently?" with the answer being "well....") for the time investment to be worthwhile at this juncture.

How about not? This is the ONE key feature that really stands out among all the "Euhm, yeah so we upped performance and slapped some paint on the game".

It is also perhaps the most expensive of the options. It requires among most time to make of all the features. For it to be a meaningful difference and not just a cosmetic one then the AI needs a whole different set of power curves to make the game fun. Using similar resources to this one, it took many years and many iterations to get the AI 1 to the quality it is today. This new game will have less then a year. It will not be easy to get it to the expected quality level for one game. It will be impossible for two.

[Tridus]

Player Race Choice.

I'm not sure this feature is meaningful enough (there've been a few comments about "how does this actually play differently?" with the answer being "well....") for the time investment to be worthwhile at this juncture.

How about not? This is the ONE key feature that really stands out among all the "Euhm, yeah so we upped performance and slapped some paint on the game".

It is also perhaps the most expensive of the options. It requires among most time to make of all the features. For it to be a meaningful difference and not just a cosmetic one then the AI needs a whole different set of power curves to make the game fun. Using similar resources to this one, it took many years and many iterations to get the AI 1 to the quality it is today. This new game will have less then a year. It will not be easy to get it to the expected quality level for one game. It will be impossible for two.

AI 1 at 1.0 wasn't the quality it was at today, either. Nobody would be shocked if balance tweaks are required at 1.0.

You need something new to sell. "It's like AI War was back in 2009 only with better performance" is somewhat less than an exciting sales pitch.

[kasnavada]

Player Race Choice.

I'm not sure this feature is meaningful enough (there've been a few comments about "how does this actually play differently?" with the answer being "well....") for the time investment to be worthwhile at this juncture.

How about not? This is the ONE key feature that really stands out among all the "Euhm, yeah so we upped performance and slapped some paint on the game".

It is also perhaps the most expensive of the options. It requires among most time to make of all the features. For it to be a meaningful difference and not just a cosmetic one then the AI needs a whole different set of power curves to make the game fun. Using similar resources to this one, it took many years and many iterations to get the AI 1 to the quality it is today. This new game will have less then a year. It will not be easy to get it to the expected quality level for one game. It will be impossible for two.

Depends how the campaign's done. If the campaign's moddable, adding 5 campaign's easy. It could even be out-sourced to volunteers on the forum.
If it's hard-coded, there's little point making AI War II. Let's make an expansion to AI War classic.

Same for units.
Same for races.

Thing is cutting additional races, moddables units, and so on, is cutting the new visible playable features. In short, cutting what people want out of the game. It's also cutting on content that actually CAN be outsourced to volunteers on the forum for free.

What needs to be cut down ain't those features, it's the paint. Everything that's needed, but won't show.
Better perf ? There was perf issues with the current ship quantities ?
3d ? What was the problem with 2d ?
Squads ? Seems like they're here to solve issues with large numbers of units.

Those are in because of the "let's put 200000 ships moving at the same time in the game" objective. I see this objective as requiring a lot of work, and it's not what gets people excited from what I see in the KS comment thread. So, cutting part of it is in order.

Minor factions ? Those sound cool, but I don't see people really being excited about it, especially since next to no one seems to know how they would work. So, cut.

AI moving to take territory ? Same as minor faction.

Ummm. What else was new. Solar systems ? Neat, but not essential.
A new soundtrack ? Could be cut, I mean there's enough music from the previous games if short on money.

[Sounds]

Actually, the only feature I'd want in AI War II compared to AI War 1 would be moddability. Everything else can go.

I'm not sure what the collective wants of kickstarter backers are, but I'd be reluctant to back another Kickstarter at the level I did for the current one if mod support is the only new feature between the two. Having it seems more like a stretch goal. I wouldn't want precious cycles going into this type of thing at the expense of the core game.

Having said that; what type of mod support would you be interested in? At one stage I wanted to tweak the AI and overhaul some of the components of the UI to suit my own preferences. At present just having the ability to create new ship types and tactics would be awesome and I'd be curious to see what some of the more hard core AI players/modders would come up with. Other than that I can't see a need.

[Draco18s]

I'd probably also cut several of the early bird tiers at the higher levels.  There's like four of them.  At one point I was pretty sure I saw backing split between the EB and the regular at a near 1:1 ratio.

[chemical_art]

I'd probably also cut several of the early bird tiers at the higher levels.  There's like four of them.  At one point I was pretty sure I saw backing split between the EB and the regular at a near 1:1 ratio.

Just as a personal example I doubled my input on day 1 to ensure I could secure an early bird special because they went so fast. Without that incentive I may not have decide to increase my pledge.

[Tridus]

Who said I didn't include that into moddability ?

The problem is that making an API of that manner in a C# dll is not easy.
(And the player's ability to compile their own dll)

That any level of modding beyond "add new ships that do the same thing existing ships can do, only with different names/stats" requires an API that isn't likely to exist. The modding that was proposed originally was relatively modest in scale.

What are you trying to say here exactly ?

[Tridus]

Depends how the campaign's done. If the campaign's moddable, adding 5 campaign's easy. It could even be out-sourced to volunteers on the forum.

If it's hard-coded, there's little point making AI War II. Let's make an expansion to AI War classic.

Same for units.
Same for races.

Units were going to be moddable and probably still will be in some way, since just loading the data from XML makes that fairly easy. But in terms of mod management tools, who knows? Playable races have to mechanically exist before they can be modded, which is part of why the talk about cutting them bothers me. They talked about "moddable tutorials", but never a full campaign, IIRC.

Thing is cutting additional races, moddables units, and so on, is cutting the new visible playable features. In short, cutting what people want out of the game. It's also cutting on content that actually CAN be outsourced to volunteers on the forum for free.

Agreed.

Better perf ? There was perf issues with the current ship quantities ?

Yes.  Play Fallen Spire on higher difficulties and watch the AI spawn so much stuff that the game can turn into a slideshow on an i7.

3d ? What was the problem with 2d ?

Ever tried playing Classic at 4k resolution? It doesn't work very well. 2d sprites don't scale, 3d graphics do. They also perform better, as modern hardware is designed around pushing polygons at insanely fast speeds. The game will still play in 2d overhead view, but internally it's doing things in 3d.

Squads ? Seems like they're here to solve issues with large numbers of units.

Unless "large numbers of units" are going away, squads are solving a real problem.

Those are in because of the "let's put 200000 ships moving at the same time in the game" objective. I see this objective as requiring a lot of work, and it's not what gets people excited from what I see in the KS comment thread. So, cutting part of it is in order.

People reacted badly to the mere hint of having ship scales smaller than what Classic has. Squads are the thing that let AIW2 keep that scale without the performance problems. Cut them, and either the scale has to get cut (which was met with hostility) or the performance problems stay (why do we need a sequel if it doesn't improve that?).

Minor factions ? Those sound cool, but I don't see people really being excited about it, especially since next to no one seems to know how they would work. So, cut.

Yep. Background factions were already cut. Minor factions can join them.

A new soundtrack ? Could be cut, I mean there's enough music from the previous games if short on money.

That's actually a problem, as it turns out. The previous game's music is licensed on a royalty basis. Using that music in AIW2 means paying royalties on every copy sold, which significantly eats into the amount of money from the KS. The arrangement on music going forward is a purchase one so it avoids that problem, but that isn't an option for Classic's soundtrack.

[Cyborg]

Playable races sounds like expansion material to me. Moddability is really key to this sequel.