Author Topic: Mercenaries in the sequel  (Read 7536 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Mercenaries in the sequel
« on: December 03, 2016, 01:03:24 pm »
Mercs in Classic fulfilled two main purposes:
- Provide a high-cost way for the player to get some high-power ships without counting against the normal ship caps. These were generally used for key battles like emergency homeworld defense, since losing them in routine actions would have been very expensive.
- Provide something useful to dump excess metal into, rather than losing it to the storage cap

And they did this by having a separate space dock that pumped out ships just like the normal dock (just mk4, and for high cost).

Ultimately, that's fine. We don't need to change it. But I'd like something that feels more thematically appropriate, and is more interesting.

After batting around a few ideas, I'm thinking:

- have a "Mercenaries" node on the Ark's menu (the menu you see when the Ark is selected; also includes nodes for Ship Production, Building Construction, and Hacking)

- when you expand that, you see a list of 2 available mercenary groups; each of those has:
-- the name of the group
-- a short description of the units in the group (for example, "Siege Destroyer and 2 Siege Frigates"), probably with icons that have mouseover tooltips for the ship types
-- that group's price in Metal
-- that group's fuel consumption
-- the time left until this group's entry is replaced by another random merc group offer

- clicking one:
-- spends the Metal
-- causes the group to warp in on the edge of the Ark's current system (with an initial order to move to the Ark); they're totally under your control as in Classic
-- removes that group from the list; another one will be randomly picked to fill its place, probably after a short delay

- there are various Mercenary Hideout structures (or whatever we call them) throughout the galaxy, and for each one on a planet you control:
-- you get a discount on future Merc purchases
-- more powerful Merc groups become eligible for showing up in the offers list
-- the offers list grows by one slot (so if you control 3 hideouts, the list has 5 slots)

- the Hideouts are never actually owned by you, and they never do anything directly, so the AI doesn't bother them


As in Classic, these would be absurdly expensive on a strength-per-metal basis, and they wouldn't count against your normal ship caps. There might need to be an overall strength cap (proportional to hideouts controlled) on how many mercs you can have employed at once, similar to how the merc types in classic had their own caps (just very high ones).

To continue fulfilling the overflow-usage purpose there would need to be some kind of ui element to let you automatically invest metal over a certain % full into mercs, though maybe that's not needed at first. Let's see if overflow is even still an issue, for example.

The merc offer possibilities themselves would be defined in xml and would be a good place for creative modding.

I like how each group could have its own place in the player's mental story of what's going on, and how they can add to making each game different.


Thoughts?
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 01:12:35 pm »
Sounds intriguing.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2016, 01:31:00 pm »
Sounds intriguing.
You know you'll just mod in an interstellar motorcycle gang called the Velociraptors.
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Offline NickAragua

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2016, 01:45:47 pm »
Seems pretty cool. I also like the idea of being able to immediately warp in (a limited amount of) reinforcements, rather than having to wait half an hour for your fleet to get rebuilt.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2016, 01:47:21 pm »
I'm in favor.
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Offline Toranth

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 02:13:53 pm »
Sounds good.  More logical than Classic's version (90% licensing fees!) while providing a slightly new take on it.  Sounds lots of fun.

I'd suggest adding a limited ability to 'dismiss' offers.  Assuming that Merc offers are good for a significant amount of time (1 hour? More?), then waiting for replacement if the current offers are undesirable could be annoying.  So, click a little 'X' in the corner of the offer, or something, with a confirmation to dismiss it.  Then wait the standard time for a replacement (so you can't insta-cycle to something really good), again, assuming the replacement time is going to be significantly less than the offer expiration time.

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 05:10:45 pm »
Seems good, though if I were a mercenary I would likely never accept that job considering the extremely low chance of me surviving and not being killed by AI ships or defenses, and as a mercenary I would probably care more about my survival and profits than the greater good.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 06:05:42 pm »
Seems good, though if I were a mercenary I would likely never accept that job considering the extremely low chance of me surviving and not being killed by AI ships or defenses, and as a mercenary I would probably care more about my survival and profits than the greater good.
It's safe to say that these guys look at risk differently than you :)
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Offline CaptainTaz

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2016, 09:10:51 pm »
I really like this idea!

Will the mecs have little icons that float above their ships or something? Or could they even be made into a "squad" (Or squads) to simulate them working together? I'd find that pretty fun.

Also, would mercenaries have the ability to enable custom gang names? (like how you can add planet names to a pool of names the game randomly draws from in galaxy creation.)
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2016, 09:11:39 pm »
Here's the one thing I didn't like about mercenaries: the theme. Why are there human mercenaries running around? Where exactly are they spending these resources in a universe controlled by the AI, and why are they only helping you for that exorbitant, effectively worthless currency? Where are they, and why does the AI ignore them?

I thought they mechanically did their job, but thematically they just made no sense to me given the state of the universe.

My idea for an alternate theme is old, abandoned automated shipyards from other human factions that used to be in the universe. You don't have the passwords and such to fully control them, but they are still operational. If you can gain control of them, you can get enough access that their automated systems will occasionally offer you production deals. You pay, they produce the ships, and they appear for you to use.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2016, 11:39:06 pm »
Let us remember that Han Solo was a mercenary once.
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Offline MaxAstro

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2016, 12:47:26 am »
Here's the one thing I didn't like about mercenaries: the theme. Why are there human mercenaries running around? Where exactly are they spending these resources in a universe controlled by the AI, and why are they only helping you for that exorbitant, effectively worthless currency? Where are they, and why does the AI ignore them?

I thought they mechanically did their job, but thematically they just made no sense to me given the state of the universe.

My idea for an alternate theme is old, abandoned automated shipyards from other human factions that used to be in the universe. You don't have the passwords and such to fully control them, but they are still operational. If you can gain control of them, you can get enough access that their automated systems will occasionally offer you production deals. You pay, they produce the ships, and they appear for you to use.
While on a logical level I somewhat agree with you, mercenaries are such a central part of the "space opera" feel to me that I'm willing to accept a certain degree of handwavium on the details of their existence.  :)

Besides: Real world experience tells me that just because the whole galaxy is desperately fighting for survival, doesn't mean there aren't going to be those trying to turn a profit on it.  If anything mercs make even more sense in AIW2, since the AI is attacking an established galaxy rather than having already been ruling one for a while.

Also, I absolutely love this idea for mercenaries.  The more flavor/optional lore they have the better.  Definitely love the idea of names for the gangs.  I basically mentally applied that sort of thing to the nebula ships from the first game, already.  Always used the ships from a given nebula in a group together, etc.  Would love to get little flavorful "strike teams" like that without having to go through the nebula missions for it.  :P

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2016, 06:57:34 am »
@Tridus: I agree on the "mercenary spacedock" in classic being simply ludicrous. Functional, but "just no" from a story-coherence perspective.

The idea here is that most of these guys are hiding out in the nebulae and staying off the wormhole network unless motivated.

As for the motive, Metal in the game is basically a build-anything-ium. Presumably there's nanotech or something like that involved. Either way, it's obscenely useful, and mercs wanting it requires no further suspension of disbelief.

On the level of "why would they take that kind of risk for resources?"... people do considerably stranger things for money.

Anyway, I'd be fine calling these "auxiliaries" or some other less-mercenary term, but:
- the price tag needs to be really high and with mercs it makes sense
- the other factions you might involve would be nice to interact with differently when we get there (albeit probably via a similar interface)

Edit: also, "mercenaries" clicks immediately in the mind of many players (or else we wouldn't have so much "that's not what that means!" in classic), where other terms likely would not.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 07:26:34 am by keith.lamothe »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2016, 07:32:03 am »
Will the mecs have little icons that float above their ships or something? Or could they even be made into a "squad" (Or squads) to simulate them working together? I'd find that pretty fun.
Squads are always groups of the same ship type (from the sim's perspective it's just one ship that loses dps at certain health steps), and merc groups would often be groups of different types of ships, so they couldn't be squads per se. But the icons would likely be marked differently to indicate "mercenary, not cheaply replaceable".

Quote
Also, would mercenaries have the ability to enable custom gang names? (like how you can add planet names to a pool of names the game randomly draws from in galaxy creation.)
The merc groups would be defined in an .xml file, so you could just add new groups with whatever names (and ship types, etc) you liked.
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Mercenaries in the sequel
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2016, 08:36:33 am »
@Tridus: I agree on the "mercenary spacedock" in classic being simply ludicrous. Functional, but "just no" from a story-coherence perspective.

The idea here is that most of these guys are hiding out in the nebulae and staying off the wormhole network unless motivated.

As for the motive, Metal in the game is basically a build-anything-ium. Presumably there's nanotech or something like that involved. Either way, it's obscenely useful, and mercs wanting it requires no further suspension of disbelief.

On the level of "why would they take that kind of risk for resources?"... people do considerably stranger things for money.

Anyway, I'd be fine calling these "auxiliaries" or some other less-mercenary term, but:
- the price tag needs to be really high and with mercs it makes sense
- the other factions you might involve would be nice to interact with differently when we get there (albeit probably via a similar interface)

Edit: also, "mercenaries" clicks immediately in the mind of many players (or else we wouldn't have so much "that's not what that means!" in classic), where other terms likely would not.

Fair enough. :) Not having this random mercenary space dock hanging around probably will make it a lot easier to go with. That was mechanically fine, but just didn't make any kind of thematic sense. :)