Author Topic: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc  (Read 13442 times)

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2016, 10:26:24 am »
I don't think the mechanics on warheads are changing beyond AIP interactions.  Damage is a balance issue and data driven.

Then Section 7.a - Attack should list their unique AOE mechanic, right? They're a unique attack type with their own code; that code has to be ported over to preserve the mechanic. 

Offline Chthon

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2016, 10:53:13 am »
The long answer is yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees. Just saying.

Oh god, thank you.  I don't think I could have said it better.   ;D
Bwahahahaha.

But, so as not to get any hopes up, the champion system from AI War 1 will not be returning, nor is anything like it currently planned.
They did say that they intend to bring champions back. Just that they don't know precisely how the champion will work when they do. It's also not a required addition for 1.0.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2016, 12:09:10 pm »
Then Section 7.a - Attack should list their unique AOE mechanic, right? They're a unique attack type with their own code; that code has to be ported over to preserve the mechanic.

True!  Though it would probably be just as good to have what they do with the warheads themselves (as a brief description). 

They did say that they intend to bring champions back. Just that they don't know precisely how the champion will work when they do. It's also not a required addition for 1.0.
This is true of a lot of cool things that aren't making the cut for 1.0.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2016, 07:20:08 pm »

Yeah, between posting that comment and seeing your response I found it in the documents, so I know the long answer by now. By the way, anyone know how to do those quotes I see all the time on the forums, where something someone said is in a black box? I tried but I am not sure how to do them and they would be useful to know.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 07:21:42 pm by WolfWhiteFire »

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2016, 07:30:18 pm »
By the way, anyone know how to do those quotes I see all the time on the forums, where something someone said is in a black box? I tried but I am not sure how to do them and they would be useful to know.

I highlighted the above text and clicked the quote (selected) for this one.


Yeah, between posting that comment and seeing your response I found it in the documents, so I know the long answer by now. By the way, anyone know how to do those quotes I see all the time on the forums, where something someone said is in a black box? I tried but I am not sure how to do them and they would be useful to know.

This is just clicking quote (selected).
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2016, 05:01:49 pm »
Okay thanks, I tried clicking Quote (selected), but somehow it didn't occur to me that I actually had to have the quote selected for it to work.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2016, 05:26:57 pm »
If you want the specific text, you can highlight.  Or you can quote out the whole thing and edit it down.  Many ways to make it work :)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline z99-_

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2016, 08:25:26 pm »
Very minor, but mercenary ships don't seem to be mentioned anywhere.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2016, 08:26:58 pm »
Very minor, but mercenary ships don't seem to be mentioned anywhere.

Gone!
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline z99-_

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2016, 08:51:03 pm »
Very minor, but mercenary ships don't seem to be mentioned anywhere.

Gone!

I figured as much, I just thought I should mention it in case there's still an interest in updating the doc for completeness :)

Although it was nice having some place to dump excess metal without it all going to waste once you hit the cap. Actually, now that I'm looking at it, there doesn't seem to be any explicit mention of a metal cap. I assume that's going to work the exact same?

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2016, 09:11:05 pm »
in case there's still an interest in updating the doc for completeness

It's a matter of Chris having the time to do it.

The rest is data driven and likely to be mechanically similar.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Minotaar

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2016, 06:47:51 am »
Searched for "tutorial" - there's still just the stuff about being able to define tutorial scenarios in XML, but nothing about what the "official" tutorial should look like. Hope that's not being overlooked!
Is there no other system planned to explain game concepts to new players? (think Civ advisor hypertext things) or is it just tooltips all the way down?  :)
I completely trust y'all to deliver on excellent gameplay, mostly just worried about it being kinda inaccessible as usual.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2016, 01:43:31 am »
kinda inaccessible as usual
It's likely to come together in Early Access.  Accessibility is a goal here.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline jenya

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2016, 02:48:29 pm »
I have checked design doc and I see that the steps were taken to reduce tower-defense style (wave now comes from random direction).
But the idea of mobile mothership makes tower-defence camping even more easy.
If the mothership is not unbearably slow, then I can string AI forces through significant number of planets.
And if I have several planets in a loop, the stringing could be infinite.

If the mothership is very slow, this still allows some tricks.
Let's say I have a planet with many wormholes (e.g. 6).
I know the wave direction in advance so the mothership jumps in from another planet and sticks around the wormhole which is farthest from the enemy.
Enemy reaches this wormhole, mothership jumps out and another mothership jumps in through another wormhole - "hey, I'm here, come and take me".
Repeat the same trick with the third wormhole, etc.

This provides infinite options for cat-and-mouse games.

Offline wyvern83

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Re: Last chances to point out stuff in the design doc
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2016, 10:14:48 pm »
Your ideas are intriguing, thanks for sharing. I greatly enjoyed mulling over the nuances of how they could work. I did hit some potential roadblocks for these ideas, though surprisingly while the first scenario is impacted badly, the second scenario actually benefits quite strongly from them.

1. Will motherships or at least Prime Motherships have a chase flag?
While thinking it through and misinterpreting your first idea as a defense-in-depth scheme for a bit, as opposed to a string of heavy warp camps in the traditional manner, it occurred to me that without a chase flag the strategy will depend entirely on AI threat logic. Waves become threat if the ships survive and threat logic avoids proportionately heavy warp camps until collectively they can take them on. The heavy warp camps will work but only as a deterrent and perhaps later as a speed bump if things go badly.

2. Somewhat related to number one, to my understanding when a ship disappears, in this case the mothership jumping out, it drops off the AI ships' target list, ie. they won't remember it or act on its last sighting.
I could be wrong but the only times AI ships seem to have chased my ships across a wormhole is when they were traveling the same direction for other reasons or were Special Forces or were part of event like in the Shard Retrieval missions in the Fallen Spire campaign. If I'm right that this is how it works in Classic, it brings up an interesting point in AI Wars II on weather cross-planet target tracking in a solar system or even between solar systems is feasible or desirable. Perhaps like a short term memory investigate last reported position or direction.

3. If a command station is present it will draw some of the wave aggression so not all of it will beeline for the mothership.
This one is perhaps not so detrimental but it does dilute the possible effectiveness a bit at least for the first scenario. However this is an asset in a delaying action / defense in depth spider planet setup for example as it takes some of the heat off the mothership and if the command station is destroyed before it leaves the mothership extends the value of the surviving turrets on its way out.

Your second scenario benefits from number three the same way and one and two allow the motherships to drop off the radar by jumping out. Additionally losing the command station could come with the added bonus that if you placed the command station in the middle of the planet the AI ships could potentially be half way only to either wormhole.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 10:29:33 pm by wyvern83 »

 

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