Author Topic: SOLVED: Impasse  (Read 517 times)

Offline jon

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SOLVED: Impasse
« on: September 02, 2020, 09:33:09 AM »
New to AI War (never played AI War 1).

Surrounded by AI fleets 10 times my fleet strength. Tried cloakers, dashers (Daggers). That worked when AI fleet was 2-3 times my fleet strength such that I could at least have my Daggers survive kiting. I'm now trying to clear the 5th system (AIP still low at 100).

At 10 times my fleet strength, the AI fleets just nuke my fleet within seconds. Can't even hack anything in those seconds. Transport get crippled within seconds too.

I love well thought out games like this. But... what do I do now?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 10:46:07 PM by jon »

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2020, 10:15:29 AM »
What difficulty are you playing on?
Also might help if you posted a save so we can take a look.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2020, 08:46:28 PM »
What difficulty are you playing on?
Also might help if you posted a save so we can take a look.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2020, 09:55:50 AM »
I realized I can use Transports to lure AI paralyzers away. But is there a penalty for crippling my Transports? It keeps count!

Oh: https://wiki.arcengames.com/index.php?title=AI_War_2:The_Arrival_of_Fleets#When_a_flagship_of_yours_gets_crippled...

I give up. Really. This game isn't going anywhere. I thought I could just use my Gravitic Battlestation to keep whittling down an enemy fleet 10 times my strength (literally, no, not in terms of stationary turrets).

Sigh. Nice game. I kinda felt like I'm playing an exciting movie about peeling back the AI dominion carefully like a chess game. But... seriously, I don't know how to play this. Whittle down the enemy with flagships? Penalty. Whittle down with fleet? Penalty. Don't whittle down anything? "*How to Play*" actually tells me to whittle down the enemy by separating the enemy (turret bunches). Zero micromanagement? Seems not. If this is the case, I might as well spend a good 30 minutes on a fun gameplay loop before hacking the game to completion, micromanagement "solved".

I'm just too stupid to play AI War!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 10:09:33 AM by jon »

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2020, 10:01:01 AM »
But is there a penalty for crippling my Transports? It keeps count!

Not really. Once they die you can just rebuild them and you're just out the resource and time cost.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2020, 10:10:11 AM »
But is there a penalty for crippling my Transports? It keeps count!

Not really. Once they die you can just rebuild them and you're just out the resource and time cost.

Really? I read somewhere there is a penalty.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2020, 10:48:26 AM »
I realized I can use Transports to lure AI paralyzers away. But is there a penalty for crippling my Transports? It keeps count!

Oh: https://wiki.arcengames.com/index.php?title=AI_War_2:The_Arrival_of_Fleets#When_a_flagship_of_yours_gets_crippled...

I give up. Really. This game isn't going anywhere. I thought I could just use my Gravitic Battlestation to keep whittling down an enemy fleet 10 times my strength (literally, no, not in terms of stationary turrets).

Sigh. Nice game. I kinda felt like I'm playing an exciting movie about peeling back the AI dominion carefully like a chess game. But... seriously, I don't know how to play this. Whittle down the enemy with flagships? Penalty. Whittle down with fleet? Penalty. Don't whittle down anything? "*How to Play*" actually tells me to whittle down the enemy by separating the enemy (turret bunches). Zero micromanagement? Seems not. If this is the case, I might as well spend a good 30 minutes on a fun gameplay loop before hacking the game to completion, micromanagement "solved".

I'm just too stupid to play AI War!

Alright. Last call for help! Am I mistaken, or am I right that this game is indeed a grind? I throw my flagships at whittling down the enemy fleet (10 times my strength), and also once in a while throw my whole fleet at taking a bigger bite (when metal allows). That, indeed, is a grind. Am I wrong? Am I missing something?

I'm not gonna refund this game, but I sure am not gonna buy another AI War game! I wanna support the dev, and don't wish there was a trial version.

I don't grind. I hack out the grind (love the particle effects of Grim Dawn!). I play Bastion to death. (Ashamed to say I haven't touched the Sorcerer King I bought long ago!). I'm still waiting for Hades to come out of Early Access.

Last call for help, before I go back to Factorio!

Offline rudhek

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2020, 04:23:15 PM »
I rarely if ever attack a planet with defenses so many times more powerful than my attacking fleets. If I do, it's to take out a particular target. In AI War 2, the AI does not rebuild fixed structures such as guardposts, those large cannons, and warp gates. Guardposts are where reinforcements spawn from. Taking out such a fixed structure means you have made progress towards "whittling down" the defenses on that planet.

Simply attacking mobile targets until your fleet is wiped out is probably counter productive. While you spend time rebuilding your fleets and metal supply, the AI is re-enforcing planets bordering your territory and special fleets such as the Warden and Hunters.

AI War 2 is a game of risk management. Choices you make such as which planets to capture or which techs to invest in affect your strength over time as the game plays out. If you find yourself in a situation where there are no viable options for expansion, then it may be best to start over.

AI War 2 takes time to learn simply because it is so different from any other strategy game. The game can be relaxing or intense for me depending on which scenario I'm playing.

Offline ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2020, 08:21:41 PM »
You've started off with a difficulty 8 AI, which is extremely hard, and a maze-type galaxy. This is a terrible setup for new players. It's very choke-y, which makes high-strength systems like the two you're fenced in by very hard to get around. I'd recommend starting with the realistic galaxy type and a difficulty 5 AI.

You've got 4 science levels of raid and nothing else; you'd have gotten much more strength for your science if you spread out what techs you get a bit more. You also have 9000 unspent science and you haven't directly upgraded any of your flagships or systems. Frankly, this game might be lost at this point.

Offline Pat

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2020, 08:44:34 PM »
I tried your save.

For a first game, difficulty 8 is high, and the "snake" map layout can be challenging: it looks cheaper to defend, but it restricts your options to navigate and expand your territory... You have a Mk4 planet with an AI Magnifier on one side, and a Mk2 planet with a Troop accelerator + 98 sniper turrets + Ion cannon + 1200 ships sleeping on the other side :o

I would take down the ion cannon, and datacenter behind the Mk2 planet Akka with the raid frigates, and hope the AI does not hit back too hard after that... 100 AIP is too high for me in early game. Unlock Fusion tech Mk2 + 3 other techs Mk1 . Replace 1 or 2 inner logistical stations with an economic station for metal income.
Then I would try to lure some AI ships on my planet (put a military station if necessary, add some tractor turrets near the wormhole to lock the incoming AI ships in range of all our turrets), until I can take down the guard posts (hit and run before losing too much)

For a less frustrating game, you could try diff 7 on an "X" or "realistic" layout map ?

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2020, 12:09:09 AM »
I rarely if ever attack a planet with defenses so many times more powerful than my attacking fleets. If I do, it's to take out a particular target. In AI War 2, the AI does not rebuild fixed structures such as guardposts, those large cannons, and warp gates. Guardposts are where reinforcements spawn from. Taking out such a fixed structure means you have made progress towards "whittling down" the defenses on that planet.

Simply attacking mobile targets until your fleet is wiped out is probably counter productive. While you spend time rebuilding your fleets and metal supply, the AI is re-enforcing planets bordering your territory and special fleets such as the Warden and Hunters.

AI War 2 is a game of risk management. Choices you make such as which planets to capture or which techs to invest in affect your strength over time as the game plays out. If you find yourself in a situation where there are no viable options for expansion, then it may be best to start over.

AI War 2 takes time to learn simply because it is so different from any other strategy game. The game can be relaxing or intense for me depending on which scenario I'm playing.

You're absolutely right that this is a risk management game.

  • Tried to punch out paralyzers with whole fleet. Failed.
  • Tried to punch out force field frigates, cos they were blocking my retreat. Got 1, couldn't get the other 2 (stacked!).
  • Tried cloakers, took out 1 unarmed reinforcement storage. Yay!
  • Massive counterattacks. Fended off 2. Double yay! Enemy fleet on target system reduced.
  • Target system now quite blank, strenght mainly in turrets. Ripe for picking. Hurray!
  • Picked off 1 paralyzer with whole fleet, left 1 more. Fended off another counterattack.
  • Target system is truly ripe for picking.

Such emergent gameplay and strategy requirements!

Metal income is actually my life line, especially during counterattacks I have to fend off. It's up to me how close I wanna cut it as I throw my fleet at critical targets (bubble force fields, paralyzers, reinforcement storage, etc). Depleting my metal may mean I can hardly fend off a counterattack.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2020, 12:10:46 AM »
You've started off with a difficulty 8 AI, which is extremely hard, and a maze-type galaxy. This is a terrible setup for new players. It's very choke-y, which makes high-strength systems like the two you're fenced in by very hard to get around. I'd recommend starting with the realistic galaxy type and a difficulty 5 AI.

You've got 4 science levels of raid and nothing else; you'd have gotten much more strength for your science if you spread out what techs you get a bit more. You also have 9000 unspent science and you haven't directly upgraded any of your flagships or systems. Frankly, this game might be lost at this point.

I stand corrected! Upgrading fleets spend less science. More targeted teching.

Offline jon

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2020, 12:15:04 AM »
I tried your save.

For a first game, difficulty 8 is high, and the "snake" map layout can be challenging: it looks cheaper to defend, but it restricts your options to navigate and expand your territory... You have a Mk4 planet with an AI Magnifier on one side, and a Mk2 planet with a Troop accelerator + 98 sniper turrets + Ion cannon + 1200 ships sleeping on the other side :o

I would take down the ion cannon, and datacenter behind the Mk2 planet Akka with the raid frigates, and hope the AI does not hit back too hard after that... 100 AIP is too high for me in early game. Unlock Fusion tech Mk2 + 3 other techs Mk1 . Replace 1 or 2 inner logistical stations with an economic station for metal income.
Then I would try to lure some AI ships on my planet (put a military station if necessary, add some tractor turrets near the wormhole to lock the incoming AI ships in range of all our turrets), until I can take down the guard posts (hit and run before losing too much)

For a less frustrating game, you could try diff 7 on an "X" or "realistic" layout map ?

You called out my mistakes! I restarted, and kept AIP to 50. Counterattacks are still hefty, after I poked Akka (took down a reinforcement storage).

How do I lure AI ships to my systems? I only saw counterattacks after hitting some fixed assets (eg reinforcement storage).

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »
You called out my mistakes! I restarted, and kept AIP to 50. Counterattacks are still hefty, after I poked Akka (took down a reinforcement storage).

How do I lure AI ships to my systems? I only saw counterattacks after hitting some fixed assets (eg reinforcement storage).

100AIP is probably fine generally, but lower is better (but again, risk management: do you keep your AIP low, or do you generate some to get more more resources/science/structure/staging point?).

As for luring ships, generally you can't. There are some situations where they'll come after you, but its more specific-situation than something you can do to any unit (e.g. defenders of a fixed structure will stick near their defend-target, but if you blew it up, those defenders get converted to Free Threat which follows different rules).

Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: Impasse
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2020, 12:58:34 PM »
The AI tries to be smart about not being suckered in to a kill zone.

 

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