Author Topic: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement  (Read 785 times)

Offline x4000

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Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« on: May 13, 2020, 10:02:24 PM »
To play this on Steam, please go under betas and choose current_beta from the drop-down list. We would really appreciate some testers on this so that we can get back out of beta status as quickly as possible! There is not currently a way to get the beta versions on GOG, but we won't be in that status for more than a few days, knock on wood. We want to make sure we didn't break anything with all the substantial changes in here, but also with the EXP stuff we want to make sure that good alternatives exist to something that was a bit... hacky.... before.

Release notes: https://wiki.arcengames.com/index.php?title=AI_War_2:_Building_Multiplayer#Beta_2.042_Journals.2C_Cheats.2C_And_EXP_Retirement


Before anyone jumps down my throat about how golems are impacted by these EXP changes, a few notes:

1. This is why we do a beta.

2. The old system was hella broken, and just wasted your time more than anything else, or was weighted in your favor in a silly way.

3. There are many various alternatives and potential enhancements. The system as it exists RIGHT NOW hurts, I get that. That was one of the deciding factors in me pushing it to beta. But the whole point is to figure out some way to make this a viable playstyle without it being incredibly grindy.

4. Overall if you have the impression that I think I'm done, and will just leave it at that, this is the wrong impression. I'm done for NOW, pending more feedback from the folks it affects. Then I expect to make changes. No need to weep, it's more of a brainstorming sort of period.



My goal is for golems to exist in a happier balance for everyone, minus the grind, minus the exploityness, but it's going to take a bit of thinking on how to best do that.

Ideas I had had a bit ago for a kind of simple quest-style upgrade system for them, which I'm not sure if I love or not:

Either:
1. They are on a planet that you take down, and they all get a mark up.
2. There is some sort of structure that you can hack to upgrade all golems.
3. There is some sort of wandering unit that a golem can chase down and kill and get an upgrade.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Arc-3N-4B

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2020, 08:01:01 PM »
I like the idea of a hackable structure to upgrade golems, but I also like the idea of doing the same thing to upgrade planets too.
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Offline StarKeep

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2020, 08:12:47 PM »
I'm a fan of more objectives; so a more extreme idea: Capturing a golem seeds AI Golems into the AI's Praetorian, Warden, and Hunter fleet. Kill these variants (maybe add a hack, or just have it be 'collecting their scraps' on death or something) to upgrade your own golem.

Offline Pireciter

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2020, 09:27:05 PM »
I like the objective/hack idea as well. I kinda like the idea StarKeep had. Something you have to gather and use for the upgrade.

On another option, if it's a science upgrade like stations: Have a timer or time-limited restriction. Playing a test round right now and stockpiled science right before a golem and instantly hit Mk. V with it. Seems a little quick in my mind.


Edit: Round finished, and a couple additional observations/thoughts:
-Fleet transports feel a little squishy. Makes it harder to deep strike than it used to.

-I'm more partial now to not having golems transport strikecraft/frigates. Maybe it's just my playstyle...
They feel more like centerpieces/linchpins vs. an upgunned transport. Plus some are already lone. I think it would also help keep them from soloing any "scavenger hunt" they need to go on for upgrades. Makes any of those upgrades a more strategic endeavor.

-AIP Adjustments
Instead of a big WHAM when captured, a smaller amount when you first capture, then additional AIP as upgrades hit. With XP, you could get to Mk.VII with nothing but time. With an escalation, the AI is getting more nervous as you upgrade. Example: For a 30AIP golem, maybe a 5/5/5/10/10/10 progression?. Overall it's a little more AIP (45 vs 30), but if you are pushing for a Mk.VII golem...that's going to scare the AI. I've found most of my XP games I only end up at Mk.IV/V anyways so if you stop there, it's about the same AIP.


Pi
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 11:01:08 PM by Pireciter »
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Offline Lord Of Nothing

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2020, 10:50:56 AM »

...

-AIP Adjustments
Instead of a big WHAM when captured, a smaller amount when you first capture, then additional AIP as upgrades hit. With XP, you could get to Mk.VII with nothing but time. With an escalation, the AI is getting more nervous as you upgrade. Example: For a 30AIP golem, maybe a 5/5/5/10/10/10 progression?. Overall it's a little more AIP (45 vs 30), but if you are pushing for a Mk.VII golem...that's going to scare the AI. I've found most of my XP games I only end up at Mk.IV/V anyways so if you stop there, it's about the same AIP.


Pi

I mostly agree with what you've said, but I disagree with this part. The player has already paid for that science, after all, and adding all those costs might start to feel like they're being punished for upgrading. If levelling it needs more of a cost, it might be better to simply increase the science costs proportionally.

Offline Pireciter

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 01:06:32 PM »
I mostly agree with what you've said, but I disagree with this part. The player has already paid for that science, after all, and adding all those costs might start to feel like they're being punished for upgrading. If levelling it needs more of a cost, it might be better to simply increase the science costs proportionally.

I apologize, I should clarify a bit.

This suggestion was meant for if it were a "hunting" method of leveling up the golems, not a science/hacking leveling system.

I agree with what you said...you have paid the costs already for the science/HaP. If it's a science system leave as a lump hit. See my earlier post about science stockpiling.


Pi
Welcome to reality...where it is never an ideal case.

Offline Lord Of Nothing

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2020, 04:02:56 PM »
I mostly agree with what you've said, but I disagree with this part. The player has already paid for that science, after all, and adding all those costs might start to feel like they're being punished for upgrading. If levelling it needs more of a cost, it might be better to simply increase the science costs proportionally.

I apologize, I should clarify a bit.

This suggestion was meant for if it were a "hunting" method of leveling up the golems, not a science/hacking leveling system.

I agree with what you said...you have paid the costs already for the science/HaP. If it's a science system leave as a lump hit. See my earlier post about science stockpiling.

Pi

Ah, yes, that makes much more sense. :)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 03:55:44 AM by Lord Of Nothing »

Offline Ovalcircle

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 08:13:02 PM »
I mostly agree with what you've said, but I disagree with this part. The player has already paid for that science, after all, and adding all those costs might start to feel like they're being punished for upgrading. If levelling it needs more of a cost, it might be better to simply increase the science costs proportionally.

I apologize, I should clarify a bit.

This suggestion was meant for if it were a "hunting" method of leveling up the golems, not a science/hacking leveling system.

I agree with what you said...you have paid the costs already for the science/HaP. If it's a science system leave as a lump hit. See my earlier post about science stockpiling.

Ah, yes, that makes much more sense. :)


Pi
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Offline x4000

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Re: Beta 2.042 Journals, Cheats, And EXP Retirement
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2020, 04:45:18 PM »
Based on this discussion, here are a variety of improvements, mainly in terms of making science not stretched so thin and you able to choose more things with them: https://wiki.arcengames.com/index.php?title=AI_War_2:_Building_Multiplayer#Direct_Science_Upgrade_Improvements

I'm shying away from adding new mechanics to the game regarding upgrading golems, mainly because there are already so many things going on, and because it doesn't seem warranted anyhow.  Hopefully there is not quite such a feeling of paucity when it comes to science in the mid-game with some of these changes, and hopefully lots more people throw upgrades into fleets they previously were not doing that for.
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