Author Topic: Idea Discard: Space platforms.  (Read 535 times)

Offline x4000

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Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« on: September 06, 2016, 10:07:02 AM »
Per the design doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IdzU90psGas_3UFe23BLvsGQ8fclec49NmnbHfwkZ8w/edit#

Space platforms:

1. This was another idea of Chris’s that is now being discarded.  There was almost universal excitement (to some degree) about the idea, but there was almost universally a lot of implementation questions as well.

2. The existing model that AI War Classic uses is something that is safer to pursue as a baseline for this game, so that we don’t accidentally alienate folks.  It is also far safer from a budgetary standpoint.

3. Space platforms as a concept are something that we still would like to explore at some point, as a lot of players also sound like they would want to.  However, we have to do so with care, and trying to do that while also implementing the new version of the base game seems like a horrendous idea at this point.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 10:14:04 AM »
Now what I would like to see which could be done is to fold up many of the base auxiliary functions of human world into a command station, while allowing the more specialized ones to still be built as needed. For example, the base energy structure and the base (MK I) research unit can both just be morphed into a command station. The advanced power station and the later MK marks can be built if necessary manually or using saved preferences in the options menu. A base unit constructor could be made as well. One could even variate the degrees that these varies units go based on the space station (so one station gets more energy while another builds units faster).
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 10:22:43 AM »
Now what I would like to see which could be done is to fold up many of the base auxiliary functions of human world into a command station, while allowing the more specialized ones to still be built as needed. For example, the base energy structure and the base (MK I) research unit can both just be morphed into a command station. The advanced power station and the later MK marks can be built if necessary manually or using saved preferences in the options menu. A base unit constructor could be made as well. One could even variate the degrees that these varies units go based on the space station (so one station gets more energy while another builds units faster).

Makes sense. In particular, the command station should just do research. The base research station is just a thing that you manage right now which really doesn't add much to the game. Research in enemy systems and hacking and such are different stories, but building a basic research collector is just a thing I do without thinking about it (ditto with trashing it later).

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 10:26:07 AM »

3. Space platforms as a concept are something that we still would like to explore at some point, as a lot of players also sound like they would want to.  However, we have to do so with care, and trying to do that while also implementing the new version of the base game seems like a horrendous idea at this point.

By all means make the code skeleton that can be flushed out later (I think it is excellent expansion material). But yes there is already plenty of new things to do for 1.0 I  think.
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 10:28:58 AM »
I'm kind of surprised this went to the scrap heap so fast, TBH. I can see why, given the complexity involved in getting the implementation right and the amount of iteration it'll almost certainly require. There's a good idea in there, though, so I do hope it comes back. How about 2.0? :)



Offline chemical_art

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 10:33:28 AM »
I'm kind of surprised this went to the scrap heap so fast, TBH. I can see why, given the complexity involved in getting the implementation right and the amount of iteration it'll almost certainly require. There's a good idea in there, though, so I do hope it comes back. How about 2.0? :)

I think in part is because it is really radical (more so then even making squads) but the bonuses are more murky. The math doesn't lie about just how much an improvement in the game squads make and while under the hood it is significant visually and in nameplate it is a much smaller departure.

Also as a philosophy modular design is being scaled back, not pushed, so it is a bit difficult to justify how using it for command stations is different is ships. In fact it is a much more complex version then anything seen before. That is not to say the idea cannot be pursued, but it is something that I think can only really be used after the "baseline" has already been made.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 10:48:31 AM »
I'm kind of surprised this went to the scrap heap so fast, TBH. I can see why, given the complexity involved in getting the implementation right and the amount of iteration it'll almost certainly require. There's a good idea in there, though, so I do hope it comes back. How about 2.0? :)

Definitely it's something I'd like to try in the future; I was super excited about it.  To answer the core of your question, I did just write up a new piece, though: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,19044.0.html
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Offline zharmad

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 10:58:22 AM »
This reminds me a lot about the creative writing process according to one authority, where he encouraged aspiring authors to keep writing and discarding favoured creations (called horribly "killing your babies",) until they are both better practices, and a truly outstanding story candidate emerged. :)
On the other hand, that suggestion is likely just confirmation bias. ;P It's entirely possible that no outstanding candidate would emerge, and all the aspirant ends up with is a pile of papers on the floor.

I guess what I'm saying is to not take too much weight on the negative aspects. Remember that for every bad sequel like the Star Wars prequels and SupCom 2, there are also good ones like Skyrim, Terminator 2 , and the Dark Knight Rises.

Offline Tridus

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 11:07:55 AM »
I'm kind of surprised this went to the scrap heap so fast, TBH. I can see why, given the complexity involved in getting the implementation right and the amount of iteration it'll almost certainly require. There's a good idea in there, though, so I do hope it comes back. How about 2.0? :)

Definitely it's something I'd like to try in the future; I was super excited about it.  To answer the core of your question, I did just write up a new piece, though: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,19044.0.html

That all makes sense. That said, I hope your excitement doesn't turn into frustration at things getting shot down. I can definitely see this one making a comeback in the future.

It's not fun when you're excited about something and the rest of us are kinda "ehhh...", but try and stay positive. We mean well. :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 11:21:29 AM »
"Kill your darlings."  Yep, I'm a big fan of the practice.

And don't worry, I'm not overly attached to any particular one idea here.  There has been so much enthusiasm in general that I'm not getting bummed out by any one idea not finding favor, etc.  Even with space platforms, it was largely enthusiasm from what I could tell.  A lot of "awesome but [what about]" in there, but I don't take that as "ehh..."

So, all good. :)
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Offline Mad Rubicant

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2016, 02:17:37 PM »
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to implement the skeleton of Space Platforms, to leave them available to modders (and expansions), but have them completely disabled and hidden in the vanilla game.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2016, 02:20:16 PM »
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to implement the skeleton of Space Platforms, to leave them available to modders (and expansions), but have them completely disabled and hidden in the vanilla game.

Will give support, it may pay dividends later.
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 02:30:18 PM »
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to implement the skeleton of Space Platforms, to leave them available to modders (and expansions), but have them completely disabled and hidden in the vanilla game.

You still have to do the design work to figure out what the feature should look like in that case, otherwise it will have to be scrapped and redone whenever it does come into the base game. Then there's the effort to do it, then the effort to test it (if modders are going to expose it, it has to be tested).

Doesn't seem worth it for 1.0.

Offline x4000

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Re: Idea Discard: Space platforms.
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2016, 03:33:21 PM »
Right -- we're doing absolutely nothing extra for 1.0.  That doesn't mean that we're doing absolutely nothing extra during the kickstarter timeframe, but what most people are going to want from us is version 1.0 and THEN for us to fiddle around with whatever else.  A backer isn't going to want to wait even an extra couple of days because we're fiddling with a feature that is modder-visible-only, but after 1.0 things ease up a lot.
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