AI War II: Design Document Updates 4: 4X-style Techs (Kinda) Replace Mark Levels

[chemical_art]

Just to elaborate, aside from dedicated "raider" units, an increase in speed is wasted. I would far rather want increased combat stats.

[Tridus]

Speed increases are just an example and something easily sorted out via data. It's not overly relevant to the tech system as a whole. Such increases could only be options on certain ships (ie: raiders, transports), or not exist at all.

Lets not get overly bogged down on it.

[x4000]

Following up on the candy tech idea, I actually do see some fun uses for how it can go. Full disclosure, this is definitely ambitious and doubt it will be implemented.

The candy techs provide three options: each give new abilities which mimic what were possible in the first game but are designs now considered too tame for new units.

Example: A candy tech for the fighter is bulletproof. Turning into what was a previous ship which was not unique enough for a unique ship but useful enough as an upgrade.
Example 2: A candy tech for bombers that greatly increases armor. Ditto, mimicking a previous ship.
Example 3: A candy tech for frigates giving them minor AoE. Ditto, mimicking another ship.

THIS idea I really like.  We could greatly cut down on the number of "unique" ship types by doing this, and instead allow for greater customization of a smaller set of ships.  Thus ultimately leading to a larger total set of ships, I think.

[Nuc_Temeron]

Overall, I have mixed feelings about this section. I kind of like it, but it is one of those big departures that I'm not sure is better than what is there now.

On ship upgrades:

Ships should have to return to friendly territory to upgrade with new tech. Just go to a planet you control and hover your fleet nearby the station, perhaps they could have a small Refit Radius. You could have little drones come out from the station and do the refit (like the mining drones from that other thread about salvage).

Please make sure I CAN'T fly my crappy / expendable fighters into place, then upgrade them magically and instantly from my planet across the galaxy, right before the fight. It sounds like you're saying we will be able to do that, and that seems exploity.

On homogeneity of ships:

I do actually use my MkI ships for small operations off of the main fleet. I might select my MkI Bombers, hit L once or twice, and send that expendable strike force off to slowly bombard some target while the rest of my fleet heads for the main operation. I might grab half my MKI Fighters and send them on a suicide mission to delay an intercepting enemy fleet.

If they were all completely homogenous, I wouldn't have any expendable ships. Neither of the above scenarios would be as practical.

[Captain Jack]

My favorite part about this proposal is that it means that my suggestion for champion design dovetails nicely with this. 

[chemical_art]

Following up on the candy tech idea, I actually do see some fun uses for how it can go. Full disclosure, this is definitely ambitious and doubt it will be implemented.

The candy techs provide three options: each give new abilities which mimic what were possible in the first game but are designs now considered too tame for new units.

Example: A candy tech for the fighter is bulletproof. Turning into what was a previous ship which was not unique enough for a unique ship but useful enough as an upgrade.
Example 2: A candy tech for bombers that greatly increases armor. Ditto, mimicking a previous ship.
Example 3: A candy tech for frigates giving them minor AoE. Ditto, mimicking another ship.

THIS idea I really like.  We could greatly cut down on the number of "unique" ship types by doing this, and instead allow for greater customization of a smaller set of ships.  Thus ultimately leading to a larger total set of ships, I think.

This was my goal. The "core" ships each in their own way become ship with a unique function. They truly evolve to fill new tactical roles. This would give the core ships a secondary role so that "new" ships can give more unique ones.

[Cinth]

So how does this interact with things like the ARS, fabs, design backups and the like?  Usually those have some unique ship(s) for us to collect.

[chemical_art]

So how does this interact with things like the ARS, fabs, design backups and the like?  Usually those have some unique ship(s) for us to collect.

To be clear, these are my ideas. Not from Chris or in any way official.

ARS would function as a general unit improvement. All "factories" would act as buildings with a +2 technology factor as long as the building lives.

A design backup would become...a new unit: I am really not sure what a design backup actually is.

New ships would still be unlocked. They just would be really unique. Not variations of base designs but truly unique units.

[Tridus]

Unless hacking is coming back, the design backups likely go away entirely. They're strictly a hacking target. (CA: A design backup is a thing that appears in the game holding an AI ship design. You can hack it to steal the design and use it yourself, or hack it to "corrupt" the design and prevent the AI from using it anymore.)

Factories were mentioned already. ARS could be a way to unlock new units still, when you capture it. Or the Core Fabs could do that and the ARS also goes away. Or the Core Fabs grant a bonus to a specific unit type, but the bonus is larger than on the factory, or it grants a unit a specific tech that can't be unlocked any other way (fighters gain engine damage or something crazy). Lots of options there.

[x4000]

Okay, please move the discussion to this new thread: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,19052.0.html

Not trying to stifle discussion, but again this is a breaking point in the conversation where things have shifted majorly because of past feedback and discussion with Keith making it clear that it was wisest to be more cautious with these changes.  There are some far-less-dramatic changes now in the document that address the same goals.  Hopefully folks are happier about that, but either way the new thread to discuss it is up there.

Thanks!
Chris