Arcen Games

Games => AI War II => AI War II - Lore, Vfx, Sfx, Code, & Meta => Topic started by: Wingflier on November 05, 2015, 09:39:30 AM

Title: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Wingflier on November 05, 2015, 09:39:30 AM
While I recognize that this may be far off (I mean really, really far off), I think it's good to bring it up now in considering the future.

Perhaps at some point Arcen will start using a new engine and an AI War 2 will come out, which means that the final expansion of the first game could potentially only be a few years away.

Regardless, the reason I bring up this thread is that I think there's an important feature that AI War lacks, and that could improve the quality of the game dramatically for the community, and that is the ability for modding.

Now it's quite clear that the developers have been hesitant to add this, because they feel it will divide the community with so many different mods being created for the game, and would rather design/balance things themselves based on community feedback. However, Arcen is a busy company, and after many years and 6 expansions, AI War is a HUGE game. Even if, with limited manpower, they were devoting all their time to it, it could still take years to address many of the design and balance issues that have arisen over the course of so many expansions and MASSIVE design shifts.

Which is why I recommend that the ability to mod the game be added to the final expansion, since after that, it will become the player's game anyway. Sure, it may be somewhere down the road (how far, it's impossible to tell). But I thought it would be nice to begin discussing it now, so we can think about the implications of it.

Personally I think AI War is one of the most mod-friendly RTS games of all time. Just changing a few numbers on a spreadsheet, you could alter the entire game experience. Also, AI War lends itself to so many different personality types and playstyles that the ideas and variations on the game are practically endless. I think that if we allowed modding, we would see an explosion of awesome mods and redesigns that would surprise everybody. Don't forget about all the cool new ships and weapons that would certainly make it into the game as well ;p

Anyway, just keep it in mind.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 05, 2015, 09:51:56 AM
The question I'd have would be if anyone besides Keith actually knew what was going on in it outside of logging by the time that happened. :)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 05, 2015, 10:48:14 AM
Ilostit. I mean, a user-friendly version of Ilostit. Add it the ability to write scripts with Ilostit-spawn and other cheats commands (+/-X AIP/Knowledge/etc) in them (some sort of lua binding for cheats commands) and some triggers (death-trigger, first-scout-trigger, etc) that invoke these lua-ilostit-spawn triggers. And of course the ability to add (and change) ships' definition by text editing.

- Better commands
- Scripts
- Ships' definition

Only this and AI War would have a very good mod support.
At least a mod support where we can make our own expansions. And I have already tons of ideas I would be able to realize with only this.

Now we need Chris/Keith to say how easy difficult is this to code.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Histidine on November 06, 2015, 08:14:03 AM
+1
Now it's quite clear that the developers have been hesitant to add this, because they feel it will divide the community with so many different mods being created for the game, and would rather design/balance things themselves based on community feedback. However, Arcen is a busy company, and after many years and 6 expansions, AI War is a HUGE game. Even if, with limited manpower, they were devoting all their time to it, it could still take years to address many of the design and balance issues that have arisen over the course of so many expansions and MASSIVE design shifts.
Indeed. And further, Arcen has too many games to juggle now to be able to devote anything resembling the lavish attention to any one game that they once did (see AI War right now, for instance). So, leverage a different Arcen asset (our pretty cool community here) and crowdsource it!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on November 06, 2015, 09:21:24 AM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

The reasons for this are numerous:
1. Doing the sort of modding support that would be useful at all would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the game engine to do, to be honest.
2. We now have experience with exactly that sort of thing in some of our more recent work -- you would not BELIEVE how mod-friendly Starward Rogue is, for instance.
3. We've had 4+ years of engine improvements since the original AI War, and people are going to be seriously frustrated if they try to work on the older version of the engine (I sure would be), so the upgrade to a newer engine would be good all around.
4. We'd be able to ease some of the performance woes that people are likely to introduce in mods by using some more multithreading, probably.
5. We could also upgrade the network library.
6. And so on.

Basically I like what you're talking about, but what you're talking about is a completely different game from the one that exists now.  I'm not saying that the above will happen for sure, but it is something we've talked about internally.  I'm curious to take your temperature on that since you guys brought it up.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Wingflier on November 06, 2015, 09:55:34 AM
Let me put it to you this way Chris, if you did something like that, not only would I buy at least 5 copies, I would devote an insane amount of time promoting it however and wherever possible in an attempt to make it the most successful Arcen game ever.

I'd make a fan group on Steam, a Facebook fan page, weekly reddit posts, heck I'd probably build an entire website because that sounds completely AWESOME.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on November 06, 2015, 10:17:23 AM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

The reasons for this are numerous:
1. Doing the sort of modding support that would be useful at all would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the game engine to do, to be honest.
2. We now have experience with exactly that sort of thing in some of our more recent work -- you would not BELIEVE how mod-friendly Starward Rogue is, for instance.
3. We've had 4+ years of engine improvements since the original AI War, and people are going to be seriously frustrated if they try to work on the older version of the engine (I sure would be), so the upgrade to a newer engine would be good all around.
4. We'd be able to ease some of the performance woes that people are likely to introduce in mods by using some more multithreading, probably.
5. We could also upgrade the network library.
6. And so on.

Basically I like what you're talking about, but what you're talking about is a completely different game from the one that exists now.  I'm not saying that the above will happen for sure, but it is something we've talked about internally.  I'm curious to take your temperature on that since you guys brought it up.

YES YES YES YES YES!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on November 06, 2015, 10:19:56 AM
Well then. :)

It definitely is the sort of thing we want to do in theory, because I think that we've really hit the limit of what we can do in terms of opening up the current game to players.  Even if we just open-sourced it, the current code would be something that people would break absolutely constantly.  And one mod would be incompatible with every other mod unless players worked really carefully with one another.  Etc.

With Starward Rogue we've solved both of those problems, and taking that knowledge back to AI War once we have continued perfecting it, and redoing the interface and various other things that really could use it on AI War (plus having a consistent art style that is also more modern, etc) would be really exciting to me.  Plus the ability for players to make their own tutorials would be a godsend in terms of making this accessible to new players.  Not to mention "easy mode" mods or similar for new players.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on November 06, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
I think it would be a worthy successor to AI War. Judging from what you have told us over time AI War still is among your longest lasting titles. Adding mods would further extend it's lifetime because there would be a stream of new content. The idea that I can tweak it to my personal liking sounds great as well.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 06, 2015, 10:38:29 AM
Of course I'm more than happy with this perspective.

I just want to make some points clear.
1) Will the gameplay remain the same?
2) Will you accept to "shatter the game experience"?

Details.

1) Will the gameplay remain the same? What will change in term of details? For instance, will all the ships' stats will stay put or rebalanced in the process? Will the minor factions remains the same? Will we have all the traditional goodies (for instances: GravDrill, BHMachine, DGLair, Alarm, etc etc) or will be some new and some trashed in the process? I mean: would it be an engine-only rewrite, or an engine-gameplay rewrite?

2) You said back in the days that not providing mod support for AI War was a way to keep the game as a one. I really value that. So what will happen to the "base game"? Will you have a steam-like workshop? Will you have official mods and sometimes integrate fan-made mods provided they are balanced and finely integrated into the "official mods"?

Anyway, if this sees light one day, I will fiercely compete for the title of greatest AI War moder!!! >D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: NickAragua on November 06, 2015, 10:51:26 AM
With Starward Rogue we've solved both of those problems, and taking that knowledge back to AI War once we have continued perfecting it, and redoing the interface and various other things that really could use it on AI War (plus having a consistent art style that is also more modern, etc) would be really exciting to me.  Plus the ability for players to make their own tutorials would be a godsend in terms of making this accessible to new players.  Not to mention "easy mode" mods or similar for new players.

Uh, yes please. I would also vote for improved networking technology. I mean, ok, it's been years since I played this coop, but still.

Also, don't listen to all those guys who say the game is too easy. It's fine to have a "maximum ultra difficulty with kick to the nut sack" as an option, but most people who play AI War aren't that good at it.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on November 06, 2015, 10:54:11 AM
AI War still makes up almost half our revenue yearly, yeah, so it's a big deal to us.

In terms of the questions:

1. Would the gameplay remain the same?  Overall the answer to that is... probably yes, for the most part.  Some of it would feel different most likely simply because we'd be modernizing so many aspects of things.  Other pieces we might cut from the game because we simply don't think they add value to most people, and we might rebalance stats some as well.  But there would be nothing stopping people from modding those right back in or back to the way they used to be.

2. Regarding fragmentation.  In general, the idea is that if people are doing a lot of modding and generally agreeing that some set of stats is superior to the official set of values, then we'd take those into the main game as the new defaults.  This would let players drive a lot of that, though, and experiment in various forks.  For those who are just trying to perfect the balance, they can do so and then we can roll out those perfections as part of the main game like any other update.  The difference being that people can do that on their own in forks that are tested with other players as much as they want.  When it comes to things that are more total conversions or adding ships or whatever, then of course those can exist in separate spheres that are unrelated to the official set of stuff, and that's perfectly fine.

3. I don't know about Steam Workshop support, as I've never looked into it much.  I suspect we'll know more after Starward Rogue.

4. I want to point out that nothing I say at this point should be taken as written in stone or any sort of promise. ;)  These are speculations and design musings designed at this point to see what you react most positively to, and what the desires are, so that we can use that as a guide for what we actually do if we take on this project.  Which I'd like to at some point, but it just depends on if it's feasible.

5. In terms of difficulty, I'm not concerned about the game being too easy, heh.  We do like diff 10/10 to be as impossible as possible, but at the same time I'd rather improve the accessibility of the default experience rather than making it harder.  Being able to have some mod-based "modes" (beginner mode, intermediate mode, advanced mode) that do things like change around the interface and even some of the game rules and available features might be nice.  Whether or not that's really feasible remains to be seen, but theoretically I think so.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Toranth on November 06, 2015, 11:21:05 AM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

(https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18122.0;attach=9778;image)


More seriously, I would love to get my hands on a version of AI War that had nothing more than the engine improvements we've seen in the other games.  Modding would be a huge bonus on top of that.
I'd also love to be able to get my hands on some of the AI and unit code... a Zombie Master AI, a Harassment AI, not to mention the Pancake Golem...

Fragmentation isn't a big concern of mine.  Partly because I play single-player almost exclusively, but also because even the multiplayer is usually only between people that know each other (and can easily coordinate mods).  If there was an easy mod-manager built in, for enabling/disabling and tracking mods (rather than manually overwriting files and such), it'd be really easy to play with.
Even with something like ToME, which has a million and one mods out there, the mod display/tracking makes it fairly easy to compare games and playstyles.


My only real concern would be that, if there was an active mod community, we'd lose some support from you and Keith, as you move on to other games, and miss all the creative input that we get now.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 06, 2015, 01:18:30 PM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

The reasons for this are numerous:
1. Doing the sort of modding support that would be useful at all would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the game engine to do, to be honest.
2. We now have experience with exactly that sort of thing in some of our more recent work -- you would not BELIEVE how mod-friendly Starward Rogue is, for instance.
3. We've had 4+ years of engine improvements since the original AI War, and people are going to be seriously frustrated if they try to work on the older version of the engine (I sure would be), so the upgrade to a newer engine would be good all around.
4. We'd be able to ease some of the performance woes that people are likely to introduce in mods by using some more multithreading, probably.
5. We could also upgrade the network library.
6. And so on.

Basically I like what you're talking about, but what you're talking about is a completely different game from the one that exists now.  I'm not saying that the above will happen for sure, but it is something we've talked about internally.  I'm curious to take your temperature on that since you guys brought it up.
Oh, so you're going to go ahead with the remake/sequel after all? Nice! Are we going to think of awful subtitles to give it? Because I think "Recompiled" sounds more technical than "Reborn" and would give a certain percentage of programmers a stroke.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Castruccio on November 06, 2015, 02:53:32 PM
Why not call it AI War II instead of AI War Reborn?  It would get more attention as a sequel than a remake.  Remakes make people assume it is just a "complete" package with some HD graphics.  I think you'd get more press mentions if you called it a full fledged sequel.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 06, 2015, 03:19:21 PM
It isn't exactly a sequel though, people expect sequels to have more stuff. Reborn/Recompiled/II sounds more like its rebuilding the engine, then rebuilding the expansions, then reworking the networking, and having mod support. Its sounds like a remake to me, though the proper kind, not the 'hd update lol kthxbi' kind.

On a pretty-irrelevant note, would this mean all the expansions would disappear from the title screen, or would they stick around and we'd eventually still run out of space to fit them? ;)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Mánagarmr on November 06, 2015, 03:24:45 PM
Well, if this isn't a proverbial financial shotgun to the face, then ... I'm all for it. It sounds absolutely amazing. But you'd probably have to make some rather substantial improvements over "just updating the engine and rewriting the code" to call it AI War 2. I'm not a game designer, so I can't really suggest what that would be, but I can already read the comments in my head if it's "just" and engine upgrade.


Please note the quotation marks. I'm well aware of the work involved and what it means to you as a company. But gamers are self-entitled, needy, whiny and short sighted individuals.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 06, 2015, 04:14:57 PM
I wouldn't consider it a sequel because it would be basically the same design, just re-implemented with the knowledge (both of how to do things, and of how important modding is to people, etc) we've gained in the interim.

Honestly I wouldn't want to run the "sequel gauntlet" of having to be a different game (or else be accused of "they hardly changed anything and they're charging us again") but still appealing to most of the people who liked the original.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: TheVampire100 on November 06, 2015, 04:44:41 PM
Why not call it AI War II instead of AI War Reborn?  It would get more attention as a sequel than a remake.  Remakes make people assume it is just a "complete" package with some HD graphics.  I think you'd get more press mentions if you called it a full fledged sequel.
Yeah, but a sequel needs soemthing to call it a sequel. Something besides "the gameplay is differen" otherwise it's a remake.
So, something like story. "The Ai is back and now even more mad."
"The humans didn't learn a single thing and now we have new AIs."
"Now with three AIs to screw you even more!"
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Wingflier on November 06, 2015, 05:07:21 PM
Whatever the case, I think you'd do better by charging say $30 for it. The base game + 6 expansions worth of content + all the engine upgrades and improvements + new art + new music + ability to mod the game is easily worth $30 in my opinion.

Then giving people who own the original game on Steam a 33% discount, effectively making it $20. That way nobody could complain that the original supporters are getting shafted, and you might end up making more money in the end.

One other idea is that, given that modding will be integrated into the new game, you could have community members work alongside you making mods during the development process, and then release those (with their consent of course), as part of the base game that could be turned on and off with the click of a button just like any other option within the game. The mods themselves would become the extra content that became the game's selling point, leaving you guys to just focus on all the core issues and improvements.

That's just an idea of course. I've already thought of a mod for example that removes hull types altogether, and rebalances the entire game based purely on mechanics such as hp, armor, firing range, damage, etc., creating a more dynamic and intuitive balance that doesn't require players to know endless hull type interactions which can initially be confusing and causes a lot of problems. This could absolutely be marketed as an alternative to the main game.

Of course that's just a thought, just trying to help.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 06, 2015, 05:11:51 PM
On a pretty-irrelevant note, would this mean all the expansions would disappear from the title screen, or would they stick around and we'd eventually still run out of space to fit them? ;)
This is the best reason to go ahead with the recompile.  :P Throw in some icons representing the old expansions, like suggestively placed constellations or ships and we're good to go.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 06, 2015, 06:20:26 PM
Skim skim skim.

OK. Here's my thought.
I don't know how feasible this is, but if there was an API that let people like me do things that the base game doesn't know about, say, a new game mode with new GUIs or the old shields mechanic, but which interfaces through event hooks, that would add the most flexibility with the greatest inter-mod compatibility.

Like what Forge is for Minecraft (minus the arduous task of deobfuscation).

I have no idea how these mods would be built and installed, but it would take so little to support feature requests. It would be adding the requested hook and pushing a new build which the updater would see and download workout affecting anything already installed.

But yeah.

Shut up and take my money.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 06, 2015, 06:24:51 PM
One other idea is that, given that modding will be integrated into the new game, you could have community members work alongside you making mods during the development process, and then release those (with their consent of course), as part of the base game that could be turned on and off with the click of a button just like any other option within the game. The mods themselves would become the extra content that became the game's selling point, leaving you guys to just focus on all the core issues and improvements.
I'm in!!!

Wait, did someone say all this is purely theoretical? Eh, I don't remember.

Joke aside, I think I'll post my ideas for a coherent lore&mechanisms mod in the "mod" subforum... one day.
I hope to see folks joining and posting their own ideas and commenting other's ideas. I can be fun.
We're an awesome community. 8) Let's prove it!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on November 06, 2015, 08:34:03 PM
I don't like the name, " reborn," but otherwise this idea sounds great!


I would like to see extensive modding that allows us to program behaviors for ships, player and AI-controlled. We could start to begin creating AI scripts!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 06, 2015, 11:18:01 PM
I don't like the name, " reborn," but otherwise this idea sounds great!

This feels super cheesy and like an actual sequel title, but it would totally fit the theme of AI War.

AI War: The Second Homeworld
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Histidine on November 06, 2015, 11:22:15 PM
"Remastered"
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on November 06, 2015, 11:35:49 PM
The idea of having a new "unique idea" to anchor this remodel is a great idea. For me, the idea of facing THREE AI, but with a key asset would be seal the deal for me. What that key asset be...
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Elestan on November 07, 2015, 12:34:26 AM
Then giving people who own the original game on Steam a 33% discount, effectively making it $20. That way nobody could complain that the original supporters are getting shafted, and you might end up making more money in the end.
Those of us who bought the game on GoG might want equal treatment here.  :-)

But seriously, even though I only bought the game a couple months ago, I would pay $30 for a remake, if it was a good remake.  I've got about eight pages of notes detailing assorted usability issues and UI glitches I've encountered so far...I can overlook those in a game I picked up for $15 on GoG, but my standards would be higher if I'm going to be asked to drop $30 more on it.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 07, 2015, 03:41:20 AM
Here is a question for Chris.

When?

I mean, okay, it's still a theoretical plan. I don't want a precise release date before even actually deciding to go for this AI War MkII or not. But what's your plans beyond SBR? We'll get Starward Rogue this winter, an expansion for TLF I-dunno-xaktly-when, then SBR... Do you see beyond that? The Bionic Dues's fans are also praying for content. Have you more ideas up your sleeve for something to make after SBR's release we weren't aware of?

Anyway, I'm super happy to see people excited about this unofficial, theoretical announcement.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Tolc on November 07, 2015, 07:42:32 AM
Then giving people who own the original game on Steam a 33% discount, effectively making it $20. That way nobody could complain that the original supporters are getting shafted, and you might end up making more money in the end.
Those of us who bought the game on GoG might want equal treatment here.  :-)

But seriously, even though I only bought the game a couple months ago, I would pay $30 for a remake, if it was a good remake.  I've got about eight pages of notes detailing assorted usability issues and UI glitches I've encountered so far...I can overlook those in a game I picked up for $15 on GoG, but my standards would be higher if I'm going to be asked to drop $30 more on it.

Shouldn't be a problem for us gog people...the Darksiders franchise did the same thing recently :)

Eight pages of notes?! Well, for the time being you can always put them up on mantis ;)

But yeah, a remake sounds great  8)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Elestan on November 07, 2015, 12:04:25 PM
I've got about eight pages of notes detailing assorted usability issues and UI glitches I've encountered so far...

Eight pages of notes?! Well, for the time being you can always put them up on mantis ;)

Do they want another (does a quick count) 200 or so Mantis entries on the current game if they're going to bin the code anyway?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 07, 2015, 12:11:58 PM
I don't like the name, " reborn," but otherwise this idea sounds great!
"Unleashed"?

"Containment Breach"? ;)

"Recompiled" was mentioned, and sounds thematically appropriate, but my first thought was someone saying "they just recompiled the game and sold it as a new product!"

Reassembled?

AI War: Distributed Annihilation? ;)

AI War: Well You See We Let It Make Some Self Modifications And Maybe It Got A Little Out Of Ha- (bzzt)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 07, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
Well I mean there are going to be some who say that no matter WHAT you do, so I wouldn't let that stand in the way of a good name.

But seriously, I don't like Reborn, sounds too much the name of Binding of Isaac's remake. Not that I think there'd be any confusion given, well, everything about the two games, but it still bugs me. How about "Second Wave"? It references the wave mechanics, is a war term, implies it would be both sequel and more of the same, and that things will be bigger.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 07, 2015, 12:56:17 PM
Agreed on not liking Reborn; it was my first idea for the name, but no.

Recompiled is close, I think. Reinitialized?

Second Wave sounds good. Reminds me of the XCOM remake's mutators for replaying the game with, which is a good thing.

Any objections to Second Wave?

Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Elestan on November 07, 2015, 01:06:15 PM
Second Wave sounds good. Reminds me of the XCOM remake's mutators for replaying the game with, which is a good thing.

Any objections to Second Wave?
One question that's probably important:  What is your target audience?

If you are specifically selling to current customers, then "Second Wave" is fine.  But having a name that implies a successor product is going to hurt your ability to sell to new customers.  Something like a "Gold" or "Enhanced Edition" appellation might be a better choice in that case, to make it clear to potential new customers that this is the new preferred entry point for the product line.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on November 07, 2015, 01:35:01 PM
Agreed on not liking Reborn; it was my first idea for the name, but no.

Recompiled is close, I think. Reinitialized?

Second Wave sounds good. Reminds me of the XCOM remake's mutators for replaying the game with, which is a good thing.

Any objections to Second Wave?


Second wave is good. I like some of your other suggestions also.


Here are some of my suggestions for AI War: Fleet Command
 
AI War: Admiral Edition
AI War: Tactics
AI War: Metamorphosis
AI War: Regeneration
AI War: Mechanized
AI Warcraft (just kidding)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 07, 2015, 01:48:42 PM
AI War: Modular Singularity
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Tolc on November 07, 2015, 01:56:06 PM
I've got about eight pages of notes detailing assorted usability issues and UI glitches I've encountered so far...

Eight pages of notes?! Well, for the time being you can always put them up on mantis ;)

Do they want another (does a quick count) 200 or so Mantis entries on the current game if they're going to bin the code anyway?

Well, we're not necessarily talking about the near future here, so... Besides, that way it is archived somewhere. In the end it's up to you, though.

@namediscussion:
How about "AI War: Reloaded"? "AI War: A new exogalactic wormhole"? "AI War: The AI strikes back"?  :P
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Dominus Arbitrationis on November 07, 2015, 01:59:55 PM

Do they want another (does a quick count) 200 or so Mantis entries on the current game if they're going to bin the code anyway?

Well, we're not necessarily talking about the near future here, so... Besides, that way it is archived somewhere. In the end it's up to you, though.

Even if it were in the near future, knowing what some complaints and glitches are might still be helpful. Otherwise the same complaints might still be valid for the new release.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 07, 2015, 02:19:06 PM
But having a name that implies a successor product is going to hurt your ability to sell to new customers.  Something like a "Gold" or "Enhanced Edition" appellation might be a better choice in that case, to make it clear to potential new customers that this is the new preferred entry point for the product line.
Sequels typically outsell their predecessors. Narrative sequels can underperform, but this isn't likely to be one.

I think it's best to position this as a sequel "with all the content of the first game".

EDIT: Haha, just realized that if you call AVWW 2 an expansion, this would be considered Arcen's 10th game. That could be useful in a marketing pitch.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: KillerofGods on November 07, 2015, 03:41:09 PM
But having a name that implies a successor product is going to hurt your ability to sell to new customers.  Something like a "Gold" or "Enhanced Edition" appellation might be a better choice in that case, to make it clear to potential new customers that this is the new preferred entry point for the product line.
Sequels typically outsell their predecessors. Narrative sequels can underperform, but this isn't likely to be one.

I think it's best to position this as a sequel "with all the content of the first game".

EDIT: Haha, just realized that if you call AVWW 2 an expansion, this would be considered Arcen's 10th game. That could be useful in a marketing pitch.
IDK 11 sounds better, especially for a game like AI War.

AI War the 11th hour, man has survived the battle but now they must survive the war. Or something or the other.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 07, 2015, 04:18:54 PM
Oh I like that.  :D

"Arcen's 11th release returns to the eleventh hour where it all began..."
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Wingflier on November 07, 2015, 04:52:50 PM
I'm still scratching my head as to why we can't just call it AI War 2: Fleet Reborn. It's not as if porting an entire game to a new engine with massive upgrades all around isn't worthy enough to be qualified as sequel material. That's all DotA 2 was (and continues to be), DotA 1 on a better engine with mod support, and it's by far one of the most successful games of all time. TF1 -> TF2. CS:S -> CS:GO. LFD1 -> LFD2. Hell most of Valve's games are just thinly veiled engine improvements and look at their success.

Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 07, 2015, 05:08:03 PM
Valve also hasn't been proven able to count to 3 yet tho :P
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 07, 2015, 06:51:53 PM
Agreed on not liking Reborn; it was my first idea for the name, but no.

Recompiled is close, I think. Reinitialized?

Second Wave sounds good. Reminds me of the XCOM remake's mutators for replaying the game with, which is a good thing.

Any objections to Second Wave?

AI War: Reloaded (Darn, Matrix did it)
AI Wat: Mankind Divided (Oops, taken too)
AI War: Iron Edition (I'm getting tired of the gold/platinum editions)
AI War: Core Reboot (Might mislead people to believe this is a series' reboot, not the reboot of the opponent AIs)
AI War: Ultimate Onslaught (I'm running low in good ideas... Bad ideas are starting to crop up)

Also, Second Wave is fine.

Wait, you're trying to come up with a name. Aren't you implicitly acknowledging that this new version will see play?
Please allows me to bump this:
When? (...) I don't want a precise release date (...) But what's your plans beyond SBR?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Toranth on November 07, 2015, 08:30:44 PM
Valve also hasn't been proven able to count to 3 yet tho :P
But they can count to $3 billion (estimated net worth)  ;D

AI War: Reloaded (Darn, Matrix did it)
AI Wat: Mankind Divided (Oops, taken too)
AI War: Iron Edition (I'm getting tired of the gold/platinum editions)
AI War: Core Reboot (Might mislead people to believe this is a series' reboot, not the reboot of the opponent AIs)
AI War: Ultimate Onslaught (I'm running low in good ideas... Bad ideas are starting to crop up)
AI War: Another Installment Where the AI Returns
AI War: Deep Inside the Engine
AI War: New Opportunities to Wrangle with Intricate Numbers
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 07, 2015, 08:39:08 PM
AI Wat: Mankind Divided
AI Wat, the new kind of wat! ;D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 08, 2015, 05:20:35 AM
AI Wat: Mankind Divided
AI Wat, the new kind of wat! ;D
Ow, funny typo, indeed! :D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: @B0FH on November 08, 2015, 04:23:23 PM
Just skimmed the thread (far FAR too long away from the boards), and the primary thing I'd want to see in a major (paid for) update/sequel is better multicore and ram support - far too many of my games die a death at the midpoint due to out of ram errors, or just lagging the system to a halt!

AI War: Fleet Disintegration ?

AI War: Turned Up To 11 ?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 08, 2015, 05:44:23 PM
I haven't had any ram issues, but the game will slow down eventually, yeah.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: @B0FH on November 09, 2015, 03:10:04 AM
I haven't had any ram issues, but the game will slow down eventually, yeah.

Admittedly it's more prominent with +% games with most minor factions/missions turned on, but it's how I like to play.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Kahuna on November 09, 2015, 02:57:13 PM
AI War: Cold War
AI War: The war
AI War: Crossfire
AI War: Ceasefire
AI War: AI Makes Peace
AI War: AI Apologizes for Being a Bully
AI War: AI Makes Friends
AI War: AI Finds Inner Peace
AI War: AI Falls in Love
AI War: AI Found a Family
EDIT: AI War: AI Has a Baby
AI War: AI Buys a Pony
AI War: AI Retires
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 09, 2015, 03:02:48 PM
Crossfire could maybe work. It sorta worked for alpha centauri, at least.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on November 09, 2015, 06:18:39 PM
AI War: Crossfire...

An AI plot where if the player hacks enough things the special forces of the two AI attack each other? Make it happen!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Wingflier on November 09, 2015, 08:18:04 PM
I've been asking for an expansion for a long time in which the two AI players turned on each other, or that there was another major faction in the galaxy which had no affiliation with you, but which the AI considered much more of a threat, at least initially. You as the player would have some power to influence or control these rivalries, to work out in your favor. The only drawback being that in the end you would still have to kill everybody to win, and that one wrong provocation could afford you an even deadlier enemy than the AI. I suppose this is the kind of idea that could make for a great mod.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 10, 2015, 01:20:28 AM
I've been asking for an expansion for a long time in which the two AI players turned on each other, or that there was another major faction in the galaxy which had no affiliation with you, but which the AI considered much more of a threat, at least initially. You as the player would have some power to influence or control these rivalries, to work out in your favor. The only drawback being that in the end you would still have to kill everybody to win, and that one wrong provocation could afford you an even deadlier enemy than the AI. I suppose this is the kind of idea that could make for a great mod.
That's Dark Spire. Like, Dark Spire in a nutshell.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 10, 2015, 04:13:15 AM
I've been asking for an expansion for a long time in which the two AI players turned on each other, or that there was another major faction in the galaxy which had no affiliation with you, but which the AI considered much more of a threat, at least initially. You as the player would have some power to influence or control these rivalries, to work out in your favor. The only drawback being that in the end you would still have to kill everybody to win, and that one wrong provocation could afford you an even deadlier enemy than the AI. I suppose this is the kind of idea that could make for a great mod.
That's Dark Spire. Like, Dark Spire in a nutshell.
Of that I can speak. Have a look at my AAR (https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17215.0.html) with Dark Spire at intensity 10.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Jerebaldo1 on November 11, 2015, 12:13:05 AM
AI War: Cold War
AI War: The war
AI War: Crossfire
AI War: Ceasefire
AI War: AI Makes Peace
AI War: AI Apologizes for Being a Bully
AI War: AI Makes Friends
AI War: AI Finds Inner Peace
AI War: AI Falls in Love
AI War: AI Found a Family
EDIT: AI War: AI Has a Baby
AI War: AI Buys a Pony
AI War: AI Retires


I think I might've just had a baby.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on November 11, 2015, 12:47:05 AM
I've been asking for an expansion for a long time in which the two AI players turned on each other, or that there was another major faction in the galaxy which had no affiliation with you, but which the AI considered much more of a threat, at least initially. You as the player would have some power to influence or control these rivalries, to work out in your favor. The only drawback being that in the end you would still have to kill everybody to win, and that one wrong provocation could afford you an even deadlier enemy than the AI. I suppose this is the kind of idea that could make for a great mod.
That's Dark Spire. Like, Dark Spire in a nutshell.
Of that I can speak. Have a look at my AAR (https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17215.0.html) with Dark Spire at intensity 10.

The first thing that I will mod is to bring back the orginal DS level 10. Current level 10 is child's play compared to how it was when it first started, where even AI level 10 faced some inconvenience.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: vigilo confido on November 11, 2015, 04:10:04 AM
This is an amazing idea. I would love to see a final completely reworked version. You can probably just call it AI War: Fleet Command Remastered. I would gladly pay for all the improvements you have suggested. Having mods that allow for certain scenarios would greatly help people get introduced to the game.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 11, 2015, 05:02:08 AM
I've been asking for an expansion for a long time in which the two AI players turned on each other, or that there was another major faction in the galaxy which had no affiliation with you, but which the AI considered much more of a threat, at least initially. You as the player would have some power to influence or control these rivalries, to work out in your favor. The only drawback being that in the end you would still have to kill everybody to win, and that one wrong provocation could afford you an even deadlier enemy than the AI. I suppose this is the kind of idea that could make for a great mod.
That's Dark Spire. Like, Dark Spire in a nutshell.
Of that I can speak. Have a look at my AAR (https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,17215.0.html) with Dark Spire at intensity 10.

The first thing that I will mod is to bring back the orginal DS level 10. Current level 10 is child's play compared to how it was when it first started, where even AI level 10 faced some inconvenience.
That would be awesome, indeed. And quite !!fun!! (in the DwarfFortress sense of it) for sure. Also, there would be so many things to tweak. I'd love to see a game with Marauders and Resistance Fighters at a much greater intensity for instance; 10 was very disappointing.

I would love to see a final completely reworked version.
Final version? Who said final? How can a mod support can make a final thing? It will be a rebirth! Thousands of player made craps and jewels! Who said "final" in the first place?!?

*Pumpkin looks at the title*
:-[
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on November 11, 2015, 08:47:04 AM
Resistance Fighters that actually do something? What a strange idea! ;)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: BlackCobra on November 13, 2015, 01:31:31 AM
I would be so happy with a "AI War: Second Wave" or something like that.
I would happily pay 20$

I have played since the initial release on steam of 2.0
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Coppermantis on November 13, 2015, 05:30:16 AM
I would be so happy with a "AI War: Second Wave" or something like that.
I would happily pay 20$

I have played since the initial release on steam of 2.0

AI War: Second Wave is a fantastic idea for a title.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 13, 2015, 05:20:27 PM
My suggestion was "Second Homeworld" but yeah, "Second Wave" is pretty darn good.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: CaptainTaz on November 13, 2015, 08:35:24 PM
If AI war got a remastering, I'd buy it within ten minutes of it's release. (more like 2 if I knew the exact time of said release)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on November 13, 2015, 09:22:54 PM
Well at least naming this one was easier than naming Starward Rogue.  :P
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Imago on November 13, 2015, 10:19:28 PM
I think AI War Remastered is clearly the best choice. It sounds like you're doing something similar to Homeworld Remastered so that should give people reasonable expectations.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 14, 2015, 05:42:46 AM
I think AI War Remastered is clearly the best choice. It sounds like you're doing something similar to Homeworld Remastered so that should give people reasonable expectations.
While I dislike this name (I would really prefer something like "second wave" or "core reboot"), I must agree that "remastered" is more clear about what the product actually is.
Tough choice! :-\
Luckily, it's not mine to make! :D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Toranth on November 14, 2015, 06:37:27 AM
I think AI War Remastered is clearly the best choice. It sounds like you're doing something similar to Homeworld Remastered so that should give people reasonable expectations.
While I dislike this name (I would really prefer something like "second wave" or "core reboot"), I must agree that "remastered" is more clear about what the product actually is.
Tough choice! :-\
Luckily, it's not mine to make! :D
Well, if this project becomes a reality, and it is the next new project Arcen starts working on, there's still a year or two to decide on a title.
*sigh*
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 14, 2015, 06:53:16 AM
there's still a year or two to decide on a title.
*Rimshot
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on November 14, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
This should be a poll.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: biffbaxter on November 15, 2015, 03:47:06 AM
Chris,

Long time board lurker - rare postings. (only registered a little less than 2 years ago) but have played and watched Arcen for much longer. I really appreciate the approach you have as a dev and being reasonably open with the community and discussing possibilities and thoughts (which of course they/we take as gospel). I think your post is very timely.

I love AI War, and was just thinking about asking about the thoughts and or status of AI War 2 or The Next Generation, or whatever it gets called. In my honest opinion the game is your Magnum Opus and while its frustrating for some to not be able to move beyond that, I think its good to embrace it, and own the fact that Arcen is known for this, and as a side effect people find your other games that are interesting and varied because of AI War.

I think expanding and upgrading the engine, visuals, mods, etc as all have mentioned are great, and will positively effect not only the revenue of course for the game you are most known for, but will also generate additional revenue on the other games (and potential upgrades and other new game releases in the future).

I am a Linux developer (and maintain my own distribution) and hope that Linux/Steam stays in the dev path going forward and will be happy to help when/if that eventuality arises. I want to share AI War with my now teenage son and tell others about it whenever the topic comes up, and of course being a Linux guy I use it as an example.

Keep up the good work and love watching the dialog and am hopeful for future developments of AI War as I was afraid it may end sooner than I wanted :)

biff
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: TelcontarVI on November 16, 2015, 04:08:20 PM
If it´s made I'm on it as soon as you can grab my money
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 16, 2015, 06:43:37 PM
If it´s made I'm on it as soon as you can grab my money

Well, it went live last week, so head on over to your digital distributor of choice and ponk down your dollars.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 16, 2015, 07:03:32 PM
If it´s made I'm on it as soon as you can grab my money

Well, it went live last week, so head on over to your digital distributor of choice and ponk down your dollars.

Hem. Draco? Aren't you talking about (your) TLF expansion? It's AI War's forum, here. Or maybe I'm just out of my mind and I didn't understand what you said. If so, I apologize.

Just to clarify something: the Last AI War expansion didn't go live last week. Or else I'm an absent-minded time traveler and then I should jump in my blue box and go get this next AI War expansion right now.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 17, 2015, 12:07:12 PM
Hem. Draco? Aren't you talking about (your) TLF expansion? It's AI War's forum, here. Or maybe I'm just out of my mind and I didn't understand what you said. If so, I apologize.

Derp.
I must have been tired.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 17, 2015, 12:15:43 PM
Derp.
I must have been tired.
I just figured you'd upgraded the Zenith Spacetime Manipulator.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 17, 2015, 12:21:30 PM
Derp.
I must have been tired.
I just figured you'd upgraded the Zenith Spacetime Manipulator.
Oh! I must do it! As soon as AIW2 is out, I'll make a mod that change the picture of the Zenith Spacetime Manipulator by a tardis!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on November 17, 2015, 01:10:44 PM
Oh! I must do it! As soon as AIW2 is out, I'll make a mod that change the picture of the Zenith Spacetime Manipulator by a tardis!
"Exterminate" is one of the AI's favorite words.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on November 17, 2015, 01:13:52 PM
Oh! I must do it! As soon as AIW2 is out, I'll make a mod that change the picture of the Zenith Spacetime Manipulator by a tardis!
"Exterminate" is one of the AI's favorite words.
Yeah, that's another mod I should do: revamp the AI's taunts.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on November 17, 2015, 04:13:14 PM
Relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Teal_Blue on February 23, 2016, 09:01:32 PM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

The reasons for this are numerous:
1. Doing the sort of modding support that would be useful at all would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the game engine to do, to be honest.
2. We now have experience with exactly that sort of thing in some of our more recent work -- you would not BELIEVE how mod-friendly Starward Rogue is, for instance.
3. We've had 4+ years of engine improvements since the original AI War, and people are going to be seriously frustrated if they try to work on the older version of the engine (I sure would be), so the upgrade to a newer engine would be good all around.
4. We'd be able to ease some of the performance woes that people are likely to introduce in mods by using some more multithreading, probably.
5. We could also upgrade the network library.
6. And so on.

Basically I like what you're talking about, but what you're talking about is a completely different game from the one that exists now.  I'm not saying that the above will happen for sure, but it is something we've talked about internally.  I'm curious to take your temperature on that since you guys brought it up.


Rather than re-create the same, but new game, why not have something like AI PlanetWars? Where you have an RTS but it is an extension of AI Wars, and is on a planet (or a host of planets?) where Humanity and the AI duke it out in different kinds of ships on the surface, instead of in space? (so the ship layout and game play isn't just a copy of the first game?)

Just a thought,

-Teal   :)

Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: nitpik on February 24, 2016, 05:00:21 PM
Would happily pay $20 (or $30) on day 1, and have at least two friends who would pay the same  :)

The biggest feature I would want would be Steam integration for multiplayer. Would still happily buy without it, but setting up Port Forwarding has been this consistent  irritation every time I try to get a new person to play, and I think every other multiplayer game I've tried in the last few years just works seamlessly with Steam.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on February 25, 2016, 06:38:34 AM
Rather than re-create the same, but new game, why not have something like AI PlanetWars? Where you have an RTS but it is an extension of AI Wars, and is on a planet (or a host of planets?) where Humanity and the AI duke it out in different kinds of ships on the surface, instead of in space? (so the ship layout and game play isn't just a copy of the first game?)

1) Your idea is interesting.
2) It seems Arcen and AI War's community (well, at least Chris and me :P) are considering a "true" AI War game, with the same gameplay and feeling. In other words, the same but with a better backend (and mod support).

However, a more "normal" RTS in the universe of AI War would be interesting. Maybe we could come up with a mod from an existing RTS (AgeOf 2, SupCom, TA... maybe Sprint (https://springrts.com/)). I feel like I can handle both gameplay and coding, but I won't be able to do more than copypasting actual AIW's pictures for the art part. It would require time, and while I have few those days (and months), I will consider this for my next off-job activity.

The biggest feature I would want would be Steam integration for multiplayer. Would still happily buy without it, but setting up Port Forwarding has been this consistent  irritation every time I try to get a new person to play, and I think every other multiplayer game I've tried in the last few years just works seamlessly with Steam.

I totally support this!
Does it sounds hard to code or feasible? Arcen? Any comment on this point?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on March 16, 2016, 04:04:00 PM
Generally speaking, trying to integrate with the steamworks features is like murder for us.  Mostly because we're not C++ programmers, and we've not seen any stellar bindings for C#.  Steamworks.NET had a lot of problems, and I have not really seen clear bindings from Valve, though I know they released them (I guess I can't find them, I don't know).
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: robertat on June 28, 2016, 12:07:01 AM
Hey, I have been playing this game for a little while now and I enjoy it. I also would be in support of a remake of it. As part of the ui changes, could you do something about the modular units? the ui to equip modules to them always seemed a little clunky. Additionally, when you have multiple of the same module attached, only one renders when zoomed in so you can only see the status/health of one module on the unit. This change would be especially useful with champions when I am often pushing the bare limits of them (sending them in for raids and pulling them out with barely any health left, etc.) so it would be nice to be easier to know the remaining status of modules, especially shields. If you guys could try to work on a new solution to that and update/clean up the layout for the champion/riot control starship/protector starship/etc I think many players would appreciate that! thanks and I really enjoy the game!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: zoutzakje on June 28, 2016, 03:58:03 AM
I personally never really cared for mods in most games, except maybe the total war games. But I could see myself using them in a revamped version of AI war regularly if they were easily accessible, preferably in some sort of ingame checkbox menu like someone suggested in a previous post. Ai type mods would probably be my most played ones.

As for names...
I like:

Ai War: Regenerated
Ai War: Recompiled

And my own 2 cents:
Ai War: Upg(raid) engine  (get it?)

maybe a few others, but it's late and I'm out of crappy ideas.

If you guys go through with something like this in the future, I'm looking forward to seeing the usual development cycles, comparing the differences between the games and enjoying various mods.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on June 28, 2016, 06:37:36 AM
Hey, I have been playing this game for a little while now and I enjoy it. I also would be in support of a remake of it. As part of the ui changes, could you do something about the modular units? the ui to equip modules to them always seemed a little clunky. Additionally, when you have multiple of the same module attached, only one renders when zoomed in so you can only see the status/health of one module on the unit. This change would be especially useful with champions when I am often pushing the bare limits of them (sending them in for raids and pulling them out with barely any health left, etc.) so it would be nice to be easier to know the remaining status of modules, especially shields. If you guys could try to work on a new solution to that and update/clean up the layout for the champion/riot control starship/protector starship/etc I think many players would appreciate that! thanks and I really enjoy the game!
Mantis is the place for suggestions like these. IIRC, there is already many concerning that kind of UI roughness.

For a more specific comment, I think modules can't be individually destroyed (except the shields). And for the champion, the current shield points and percentage are displayed in place of the resources (next to the shadow power gauge) when the champion is selected. And for Riot Control Starships and the like, there is a blue bar below the green/orange/red health bar to indicate the shield's status.

I hope that helped.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on June 30, 2016, 10:21:46 AM
Hey, I have been playing this game for a little while now and I enjoy it. I also would be in support of a remake of it. As part of the ui changes, could you do something about the modular units? the ui to equip modules to them always seemed a little clunky. Additionally, when you have multiple of the same module attached, only one renders when zoomed in so you can only see the status/health of one module on the unit. This change would be especially useful with champions when I am often pushing the bare limits of them (sending them in for raids and pulling them out with barely any health left, etc.) so it would be nice to be easier to know the remaining status of modules, especially shields. If you guys could try to work on a new solution to that and update/clean up the layout for the champion/riot control starship/protector starship/etc I think many players would appreciate that! thanks and I really enjoy the game!
Mantis is the place for suggestions like these. IIRC, there is already many concerning that kind of UI roughness.

For a more specific comment, I think modules can't be individually destroyed (except the shields). And for the champion, the current shield points and percentage are displayed in place of the resources (next to the shadow power gauge) when the champion is selected. And for Riot Control Starships and the like, there is a blue bar below the green/orange/red health bar to indicate the shield's status.

I hope that helped.

Modules are, or should be, rendered in different places based on what slot they're in.  But having two "small" shield modules makes them both render in the same place.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Elestan on June 30, 2016, 08:59:35 PM
Modules are, or should be, rendered in different places based on what slot they're in.  But having two "small" shield modules makes them both render in the same place.

Just a guess, but I suspect this is because the shield needs to center on the generator, so if they were not atop each other, you'd get multiple overlapping shield bubbles not quite centered on the ship.  Which would actually look kind of cool, but might cause some other problems.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: vincenth13 on July 26, 2016, 11:03:50 AM
I would support the hell out of that and probably buy copies up to the current price of AAA games (90$ currently where I live).

I would also like to ask if it would be possible to update the engine to a 64 bits one with this as , as far as I remember, most, if not all of the crashes I have suffered while playing this game have been caused by out of memory errors (on PC's that have 8 and 16 gigs of ram respectively).

Anyway, I really wish this comes to fruition and wishes the best to you as you are probably my favorite game company ( although you still have a few contenders to dislodge to gain the permanent title).


An update on the idea of a sequel/remaster would also be really appreciated since you don't seem to have posted in this thread since 2015.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on July 26, 2016, 11:21:33 AM
No progress on this in a while, but it's next on our list on the strategy side (aka Keith) after SBR.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on July 27, 2016, 04:07:01 AM
The harder is to wait.

Speaking of that, may you ask Keith to post some report on his work? I don't ask a daily dev blog, but some updates every now and then (maybe once a month) would be very appreciated.

It's a shame to me because I'm so impatient about SBR and AIW2, but we get only updates on SR and RR, in which I'm only moderately interested.

(Meanwhile, I channel my frustration in a wiki revamp rampage.)
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: keith.lamothe on July 27, 2016, 09:27:53 AM
Speaking of that, may you ask Keith to post some report on his work? I don't ask a daily dev blog, but some updates every now and then (maybe once a month) would be very appreciated.
Regular status updates are difficult, life's been nuts for a while. But in general for SBR I've worked through a number of alternate designs with a few testers and am now working on a heavily adjacency-based citybuilding model (only caring about stuff 1 tile away, but you can have a tier 3 building that boosts a tier 2 building which in turn boosts a tier 1 building, and the boost on the tier 2 impacts its boost to the tier 1, etc) and tying much of the combat and diplomatic decision-making into how you build your city.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on July 27, 2016, 12:40:09 PM
(Meanwhile, I channel my frustration in a wiki revamp rampage.)
Arcen wiki can do with a revamp every so often anyway! ;D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on July 28, 2016, 04:20:33 AM
Speaking of that, may you ask Keith to post some report on his work? I don't ask a daily dev blog, but some updates every now and then (maybe once a month) would be very appreciated.
Regular status updates are difficult, life's been nuts for a while. But in general for SBR I've worked through a number of alternate designs with a few testers and am now working on a heavily adjacency-based citybuilding model (only caring about stuff 1 tile away, but you can have a tier 3 building that boosts a tier 2 building which in turn boosts a tier 1 building, and the boost on the tier 2 impacts its boost to the tier 1, etc) and tying much of the combat and diplomatic decision-making into how you build your city.
Oh hey! What a lovely surprise! If I knew I just had to ask, I would have asked earlier. Thanks a lot. I hope we would have some more insights like that; regular status updates aren't required, but some nuggets here and there help soothing impatience.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: WolfWhiteFire on July 29, 2016, 12:30:01 PM
Well, a new AI War with mod support and many improvements sounds great, though considering that The Last Federation and Stars Beyond Reach are in the same universe though far away, might it make sense to eventually allow some of the races from them to join the party? If it is placed far in the future from AI War, the other games are far in the past, or if there is long ranged wormholes it could make sense. Maybe they could be added as minor or major factions in an expansion.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Yavaun on August 15, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Just for the sake of argument, how would you feel if:

1. We released a new version of the game called AI War Reborn or similar, charging probably $20 for it.
2. We drastically upgraded the underlying engine, had copious mod support from the ground up in that, did new art, and so on.
3. We built as many of the features from all the AI War expansions as possible into that, although minus things that nobody really likes anyway (Defender mode).
4. We started with something that is really simplistic but with mod support, and then during an alpha where you guys are involved, built things back up so that you're not left out of the process until the last second.
5. We then leave the original AI War alone, period, and AI War Reborn becomes the new AI War experience that any expansions go to, and that players can focus any modding efforts on, etc.

The reasons for this are numerous:
1. Doing the sort of modding support that would be useful at all would require pretty much a complete rewrite of the game engine to do, to be honest.
2. We now have experience with exactly that sort of thing in some of our more recent work -- you would not BELIEVE how mod-friendly Starward Rogue is, for instance.
3. We've had 4+ years of engine improvements since the original AI War, and people are going to be seriously frustrated if they try to work on the older version of the engine (I sure would be), so the upgrade to a newer engine would be good all around.
4. We'd be able to ease some of the performance woes that people are likely to introduce in mods by using some more multithreading, probably.
5. We could also upgrade the network library.
6. And so on.

Basically I like what you're talking about, but what you're talking about is a completely different game from the one that exists now.  I'm not saying that the above will happen for sure, but it is something we've talked about internally.  I'm curious to take your temperature on that since you guys brought it up.

I would say this is something I would enjoy a hounred millions times more than an actual sequel.
A sequel is always a new game. I don't want a new game! This game is already by far the best RTS in existence and the only way to go from here would be to improve it further - not to derail it. Not sure what I can say to convince you that this announcement would be more exciting than winning the lottery but you guys simple have to do this!

Pretty please!
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 15, 2016, 07:44:24 PM
Basically: "hands off the game itself, you dolts, but yes please on the interface, graphics, network, and all that jazz?"
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Yavaun on August 16, 2016, 08:01:17 AM
I wouldn't put it that way but basically yes :D

I don't mean to say you aren't competent enough to produce a good sequel despite the common trend with game sequels but... all that jazz ontop of what AI wars already is would create some sort of super ultimate spire dreadnought version of the game that a sequel can't reach. There are definitely content additions and gameplay shifts that I'd love to see but even there -instead of replacing core gameplay aspects with them - they'd be so much better as !optionial! DLC or mod based minor factions.

For exmaple, I'm sure not everyone would want to play with ships that let's say are focused on active abilities and level ups kinda like capital ships in SINS. So why make them an integral part of the new game when you can just keep the old game and make it one the houndreds of options?
Other changes like a better ship formation system, mod support, etc can be applied to both a sequel and a rework so there is nothing to be gained here.

I simply don't see the plus side of having a sequel instead of a rework.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 12:42:20 PM
Right, I gotcha. :)

In terms of a good sequel, to some extent I see that as being like the difference between Age of Empires 1 and 2, or Empire Earth 1 and 2.  Overall the sequel was a refinement of the original and a needed reimagining of a few bits in order to achieve said refinement.  But any reimagining was aimed at making the original experience better, rather than trying to reinvent things like AOE3 or EE3 did.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Mánagarmr on August 16, 2016, 03:46:41 PM
Aside from the obtuse interface, awkward networking and the somewhat dated graphics, there really isn't much wrong with AI War. Changing too much may well just kill it.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 03:49:12 PM
Don't forget performance.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on August 16, 2016, 05:00:00 PM
Don't forget performance.
And modability! Don't forget modability!

 :P
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on August 16, 2016, 07:12:34 PM
@x4000: I would recommend one change to AI War: once the sequel goes up for pre-order and sale, rename the original "AI War Classic" or something to that effect. Lessens the chance of confusion.

Also if you do decide to go the crowdfunding route, announce the definite date you are going to launch the campaign a MINIMUM TWO MONTHS in advance. AI War could rake in that Kickstarter cash but you'll want to maximize the first few days.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 07:26:21 PM
Got it, that makes a lot of sense.  We'd also solicit a lot of help on getting the campaign designed, too.  I've noticed a few other folks doing that if you've already been on one of their prior kickstarters.  Seemed like a good idea.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on August 16, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
Got it, that makes a lot of sense.  We'd also solicit a lot of help on getting the campaign designed, too.  I've noticed a few other folks doing that if you've already been on one of their prior kickstarters.  Seemed like a good idea.
Glad to hear it.  :D

Anyone in particular you're reaching out to? The serial Kickstarters I know are Harebrained Schemes with four and inXile with three, and I know Brian Fargo is approachable on social media. Different genres, but both companies are good about shouting out new projects.

Also, I just skimmed your AMA, and to answer the question no one asked, we named SR on October 10th. I delivered you a word salad and you liked Starward Ark and Starward Rogue. We went back and forth for a while longer before your wife told you to stay with SR (and that subtitle). We were moving toward Starstrike at the time, which is a good name for the expansion now that I think of it.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 08:34:42 PM
Oh god yes, that's right!  Man, you and I were really in it up to our necks on that one and the one before, weren't we?

In terms of reaching out, I'd do so with the forum at large, I think.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on August 16, 2016, 08:54:18 PM
Oh god yes, that's right!  Man, you and I were really in it up to our necks on that one and the one before, weren't we?

In terms of reaching out, I'd do so with the forum at large, I think.
Actually it convinces me that the naming process was absolutely charmed; we started on the 8th, had the title two days later and finalized on the 11th. Compare Yet-Unnamed-Survival-Game which we simply stopped working on. X.X Heck, rewriting SR's premise took less than a week, and around Christmas to boot.

Speaking of, should I send you a list of names once Raptor is released?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on August 16, 2016, 09:43:42 PM
Shouldn't we do a poll on what people want? Because for me personally, I think the game systems need some added surprises. The AI needs an update. It's a little easy right now to manipulate, and we compensate for that by making everything else more difficult. I would like the AI to be smarter and maybe some different emergent combinations.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 09:53:35 PM
Ah yes, that's right on the SR one going so quickly.

On the survival game, I'm kind of putting that on hold right now in the original form I had in mind.  I need to rethink that some and come at it from a more unique angle.  I have some good concepts, but I'll need to do some prototyping to see what is feasible and in budget.  The design there will definitely play into the name for that game.

Re polling what people want, please feel free to do so.  I'll be interested in hearing all sorts of feedback from folks at the time of, either way.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Captain Jack on August 16, 2016, 10:15:55 PM
Ah yes, that's right on the SR one going so quickly.

On the survival game, I'm kind of putting that on hold right now in the original form I had in mind.  I need to rethink that some and come at it from a more unique angle.  I have some good concepts, but I'll need to do some prototyping to see what is feasible and in budget.  The design there will definitely play into the name for that game.

Re polling what people want, please feel free to do so.  I'll be interested in hearing all sorts of feedback from folks at the time of, either way.
Oh, good. I'm not big on survival games as a rule, and now that the genre seems to have peaked it'll need a hook to set itself apart. Let me know if you need someone to brainstorm on, and when you have the gameplay premise.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 16, 2016, 10:17:21 PM
Absolutely.  I have several really cool hooks that I think could work, but I want to see which ones are technically feasible and I also don't want to get people here TOO excited about any of those in case they don't work out.  But suffice it to say, it would be far more up the alley of this crowd.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Elestan on August 17, 2016, 04:24:21 AM
Shouldn't we do a poll on what people want? Because for me personally, I think the game systems need some added surprises. The AI needs an update. It's a little easy right now to manipulate, and we compensate for that by making everything else more difficult. I would like the AI to be smarter and maybe some different emergent combinations.

To repeat something I said on this thread close to a year ago, there's an important question to answer before polling the people here:  Are you mainly looking to (re)sell the revamped game to the people on this forum?  Or are you hoping to bring in new players to expand the audience for the game?  It makes a really big difference on how you should prioritize things like improving the learning curve vs. adding more new stuff.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on August 17, 2016, 05:00:57 AM
Shouldn't we do a poll on what people want? Because for me personally, I think the game systems need some added surprises. The AI needs an update. It's a little easy right now to manipulate, and we compensate for that by making everything else more difficult. I would like the AI to be smarter and maybe some different emergent combinations.

To repeat something I said on this thread close to a year ago, there's an important question to answer before polling the people here:  Are you mainly looking to (re)sell the revamped game to the people on this forum?  Or are you hoping to bring in new players to expand the audience for the game?  It makes a really big difference on how you should prioritize things like improving the learning curve vs. adding more new stuff.
While that remark is pertinent, I, for one forum member, would happily buy a revamped version with only UI revamp, improved learning curve and mod support.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 17, 2016, 09:00:26 AM
AI War is still our top-selling product at the moment, so we're bringing in new players already despite whatever hurdles.  So I'm not sure what to make of that.  Usually I'd write more with a lot of pondering on the subject, but there are a variety of ways to interpret the data and I'm short on time so I'll just leave that there for once.  ;D
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on August 19, 2016, 08:02:12 PM
Got it, that makes a lot of sense.  We'd also solicit a lot of help on getting the campaign designed, too.  I've noticed a few other folks doing that if you've already been on one of their prior kickstarters.  Seemed like a good idea.

Yeah, the big secret to Kickstarter success is that you need a fan base ready and willing to shove money at you before you've even gone live.  You literally can't be spending KS time trying to find your base.  If you haven't hit your goal by Day 3, you've done something terribly, terribly wrong.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on August 20, 2016, 02:43:18 PM
Got it, that makes a lot of sense.  We'd also solicit a lot of help on getting the campaign designed, too.  I've noticed a few other folks doing that if you've already been on one of their prior kickstarters.  Seemed like a good idea.

Yeah, the big secret to Kickstarter success is that you need a fan base ready and willing to shove money at you before you've even gone live.  You literally can't be spending KS time trying to find your base.  If you haven't hit your goal by Day 3, you've done something terribly, terribly wrong.

That's really not true…
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 20, 2016, 03:36:00 PM
It is substantially more varied than that, yes.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on August 20, 2016, 05:57:28 PM
If you haven't hit your goal by Day 3, you've done something terribly, terribly wrong.

I actually agree with this because that allows a kickstarter to hit those glorious bonus goals and that really is what gives a campaign legs. Once you start proposing those extra goals you both increase donations per person as they upgrade and you entice new players with the value being offered. It is in no small part psychological but that's how sales work right?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on August 20, 2016, 09:40:52 PM
Data over random forum bs'ing. ::)

I think we can all make up scenarios where you can drag more money out of kickstarters. I personally only donate to games and projects that I actually want and not because of stretch goals. I see them as investments that will hopefully be cheaper than a day one purchase. I will not purchase it if it's not.

Doesn't mean others aren't chasing stretch goals. If that was even true on a large enough scale, you would just make the goal lower.

The whole thing is certainly based around long-term investment with psychological manipulation. It's based around the promise of the game you think you are going to get (whether or not someone's vision even matches reality is something entirely different). I think that's the one thing about kickstarter that's really not anyone's fault but, it can really prey upon people that are manic, fantasy prone, or have impulse control problems.

I would like to see a kickstarter purely from the point of view that I hope it is at a discount from a day one purchase and because I want to see the game get developed. The company would surely earn and deserve the profits. What I'm scared to see though is a lock-in to ideas that don't work out or a commitment to something that nobody wants later on. But who knows, maybe that would help Chris get the game out on time. Now I'm rambling.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Kahuna on August 21, 2016, 02:11:08 AM
What happens to the money on Kickstarter if the project doesn't hit the goal? Do people get a refund? Where does the refund go, into the backer's kickstarter account or where? I wont touch Kickstarter even with a 10 foot pole unless I know I get a 100% refund on the same bank account I used to pay in case the project doesn't hit the goal. Most likely I'd consider backing a project only after it has already hit it's goal.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Cyborg on August 21, 2016, 11:09:25 AM
What happens to the money on Kickstarter if the project doesn't hit the goal? Do people get a refund? Where does the refund go, into the backer's kickstarter account or where? I wont touch Kickstarter even with a 10 foot pole unless I know I get a 100% refund on the same bank account I used to pay in case the project doesn't hit the goal. Most likely I'd consider backing a project only after it has already hit it's goal.

There's no charge until the goal is met.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 21, 2016, 12:22:00 PM
What happens to the money on Kickstarter if the project doesn't hit the goal? Do people get a refund? Where does the refund go, into the backer's kickstarter account or where? I wont touch Kickstarter even with a 10 foot pole unless I know I get a 100% refund on the same bank account I used to pay in case the project doesn't hit the goal. Most likely I'd consider backing a project only after it has already hit it's goal.

There's no charge until the goal is met.

AND until the kickstarter finishes at that goal.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: chemical_art on August 21, 2016, 09:22:08 PM
To actually ramble on topic for once:

A great obstacle about a game I have played before is trying to remember all the things I once learned.

Like right now I have a game I want to indulge in. But I cannot remember all the things that I had learned before hand.

If there was a way the game could provide that information as a refresher I would be back into that game. And soon after buy the DLC that has happened since I left.

Even for AI War I feel like that sometimes despite spending so much time on it.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Draco18s on August 22, 2016, 12:07:48 PM
You're right in that it's more varied, as my own KS didn't hit its stride until the second week when we got featured in KS's weekly newsletter of "here's three projects we like."

And there's countless other projects that have hit their goal towards the end, but they aren't ones that have a lot of steam behind them. They're trundling along and just barely pulling through.  The people behind the project and the people backing it might have a lot of enthusiasm for it, but there's no hype.  And trust me when I say that seeing a project only barely squeaking by is painful.  Even if you're hyped and trying to spread the word, not seeing much progress in the funding value hurts.

Point is, you want to find all of those people early, even if you flatten out afterwards and still only just make your goal.  Kickstarter isn't when to start your advertising campaign, it's the grand finale.  Find a base, get them excited, start the hype train, advertise like crazy and say, "we're doing a kickstarter, sign up for our newsletter so you can find out when it goes live, probably in a month."

Ostensibly you've already done that kind of work with Release Raptor, taunting us with the EA release for two months now: your base is hyped and ready and waiting to throw money at you.  You've been doing the press work already, getting people who don't follow the forums interested and following the forums (slash blog posts, slash Steam page).

Doing a Kickstarter is the same thing, you need to tell people "this thing, which I'm sure you want, is coming, go here for updates" so that you can build FOMO: Fear of Missing Out.  The Kickstarter campaign is the "limited time only, get it now" culmination of all that work, the ultimate "the thing you've all been waiting for, get it now or never!"
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on August 22, 2016, 01:01:50 PM
Wait. Are we discussing Kickstarter on the AIW subforum? Or is it just yet another derailed topic and we're discussing KS "in general" because RR is nearly out?
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Steelpoint on August 26, 2016, 04:40:35 AM
If there ever was to be a new sort of expansion/remaster of the game, one thing that I think would be interesting to explore is making Journal entries more common.

One thing I really liked about some of the expansions was how you got reports and communications from other members of your group, scientists and survey teams and the like.

While it would be time consuming, I think also having there be journal entries for actions or things the player sees during a normal game would be interesting. Such as encountering a critical objective (Core Shield or Advance Factory) or accomplishing a objective that puts you one step closer to defeating the AI.

The boon would be not only making the player feel like their resistance army is more alive, but it can be a good aid for newer players by giving them some direction, as well as guiding them on what structures are critical and worth looking at.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: x4000 on August 26, 2016, 09:36:26 AM
I definitely agree -- and I know that Watashiwa would be really on board with that, too.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Pumpkin on August 26, 2016, 04:18:13 PM
I definitely agree -- and I know that Watashiwa would be really on board with that, too.
Yay! I'm on it too!
I love the idea of a more vivid universe. The base game has so many things to re-explore and highlight. First golem rebuilt, first friendly roaming enclave "asking" for protection, etc.
Title: Re: The Final AI War Expansion
Post by: Aklyon on August 30, 2016, 11:46:12 AM
If there ever was to be a new sort of expansion/remaster of the game, one thing that I think would be interesting to explore is making Journal entries more common.

One thing I really liked about some of the expansions was how you got reports and communications from other members of your group, scientists and survey teams and the like.

While it would be time consuming, I think also having there be journal entries for actions or things the player sees during a normal game would be interesting. Such as encountering a critical objective (Core Shield or Advance Factory) or accomplishing a objective that puts you one step closer to defeating the AI.

The boon would be not only making the player feel like their resistance army is more alive, but it can be a good aid for newer players by giving them some direction, as well as guiding them on what structures are critical and worth looking at.
Oh yes. More Journal entries would be awesome.