Arcen Games

Games => AI War II => AI War II - Lore, Vfx, Sfx, Code, & Meta => Topic started by: TechSY730 on September 08, 2016, 09:56:01 PM

Title: Number of Ship Types
Post by: TechSY730 on September 08, 2016, 09:56:01 PM
(This really isn't an idea, just a small critique on what I think so far)

I am sort of sad to see the absurd number of ship types go. Yea, I understand why (1. for 1.0, it is infeasible to port all the content over; 2. many of the ship types were just small "tweaks" on another ship type, which is now being formalized into an actual game mechanic), but it is still a bit sad. The whole "hundreds of usable ship types" thing (ok, maybe not that many) was one of the unique things about AI War I liked; part of what I felt made AI War "AI War"


Thoughts? Think the new "upgrade" system will be able to still give the "tons of ship types" feel?
Also, I am aware that some of this will be solved somewhat as existing "truly new mechanic" ships get ported over in later versions, or even new ideas entirely added.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Tridus on September 08, 2016, 10:13:22 PM
I'm not. Of the "hundreds" of ships, there was maybe dozens where I really understood what they did and how to use them. A smaller group of those I favored and actually wanted. A huge pile of other "stuff" that I never really wanted to use very much.

Thinning out the pile will mostly be a good thing. Plus, it makes room for new things to come later.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Pumpkin on September 09, 2016, 06:04:17 AM
Moddability.

Infinite number of ship types.

 ;)
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Tridus on September 09, 2016, 07:35:19 AM
Moddability.

Infinite number of ship types.

 ;)

Except that XML only mods can't create new mechanics. It's not like I can very easily mod Protector Ships back in if the thing that makes them work is itself removed from the game.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Pumpkin on September 09, 2016, 09:48:38 AM
Moddability.

Infinite number of ship types.

 ;)

Except that XML only mods can't create new mechanics. It's not like I can very easily mod Protector Ships back in if the thing that makes them work is itself removed from the game.
Dammit! They lied to us!

Sorry, I was sarcastic.

My true point is: sure, less ships. But moddability.
And the apparently reduced quantity of unmoddable mechanisms is for game balance and clarity, which I'm entirely supporting. And I say "apparently reduced" because new ones will come (and already came).

However, the candy techs kinda ruin that "mod space". This is one reason for why I hate them. Personally.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Tridus on September 09, 2016, 10:12:26 AM
I don't know, I think there's still a fair bit to do in the mod space, especially if you can apply candy techs to ships from the outset. Or give them to ships that can't normally get them.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: zharmad on September 09, 2016, 10:40:09 AM
Um, hmm.. the candy techs should be themselves formulated in XML - we should confirm this with Chris.

Having candy techs in XML means that you can remove how ever many that's limiting the mod space, and replace it with your creations.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Pumpkin on September 09, 2016, 11:12:29 AM
I don't know, I think there's still a fair bit to do in the mod space, especially if you can apply candy techs to ships from the outset. Or give them to ships that can't normally get them.
Um, hmm.. the candy techs should be themselves formulated in XML - we should confirm this with Chris.

Having candy techs in XML means that you can remove how ever many that's limiting the mod space, and replace it with your creations.
I'm slowly making up my mind around the "candy tech" upgrades. And, for sure, there will be plenty of "modding space". I was just a bit worried, but after thinking about it a bit, I reassured myself. (Wrongly, maybe. ;P)
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: x4000 on September 09, 2016, 12:13:01 PM
Are you saying that the modding space gets reduced because the base game itself will already have so many options that the point of modding goes down?  ;D  If so, that's certainly a goal!  There's no point at which we're going "ahaha, let's make this so limited in the base game that they have to use mods!"

I also don't think we'll see a complete removal of the feeling of "tons of ships" by any stretch.  I've barely scratched the list of it so far; I'm not even through the base game, let alone into any of the freaking expansions.  If you felt the game was super-limited in ship variety after the base game and the first three expansions, then you might still feel that way in v1.0 here. ;)  But then there's a ton of additions in making those all way more customizable than they were after 3 expansions before, thus making it so that there are a lot more overall options than even after 6 expansions in Classic.

That's the goal, anyway.

As to the moddability of techs... certainly those will be to a certain extent, though I'm not sure exactly to what degree.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Wingflier on September 09, 2016, 12:24:11 PM
I'm not. Of the "hundreds" of ships, there was maybe dozens where I really understood what they did and how to use them. A smaller group of those I favored and actually wanted. A huge pile of other "stuff" that I never really wanted to use very much.

Thinning out the pile will mostly be a good thing. Plus, it makes room for new things to come later.
I find myself agreeing with this so much. Having ships for the sake of having ships is really silly. AI War 1.0 didn't have a ton of ships but from what I remember, the ships it had were balanced pretty well.

I'd much rather have a small group of diverse and unique ships that fill their role incredibly well than a huge roster of mostly garbage.

Furthermore, if the base game has as many ships as AI War 6.0, there won't be much room for expansions!
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: x4000 on September 09, 2016, 01:25:15 PM
One thing to note: we're definitely not going to hold anything back just so there's room for expansions. :)  I really hate it when companies do that (EA sports?).  I think we'll have room for expansions that do things that are more interesting than just adding new ship types or map types or even AI types.  I'm thinking here about really enriching the actual galaxy map with factions and things to do and find that broaden things in new ways that you see every game, rather than just when you choose a specific bonus ship type.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: Draco18s on September 09, 2016, 02:21:21 PM
The impact thing is getting the various mechanics in, even if a specific unit doesn't make it, but shows up in an expansion. Once the mechanics are there, the units are easy. It wasn't "saved" for the dlc, it just wasn't explicitly built until then.
Title: Re: Number of Ship Types
Post by: x4000 on September 09, 2016, 03:13:09 PM
Right.  We added tons of mechanics for each piece of DLC.  Some of them I like more than others. ;)