Author Topic: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI  (Read 1111 times)

Offline BlackNyasher

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Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« on: November 19, 2016, 07:25:43 AM »
So since there will be a some kind of Motherships instead of homeplanet-command-stations - i have the idea how to avoid the situations when one single super-fast super-annoying ship breaking through the defences and end the game by killing the HCS (or just the situations when naive player lost the mothership by keeping it too close to the frontline).

Idea is in making of the super-armored "core" for every mothership! When mothership destroyed this core is being ejected from the exploding ship and stay helpless and immobilised in the open space - there is no power in the galaxy which can destroy this core, but intead of destruction AI can hack this core to open the door and kill the player who sit inside.

How this is working in the game - mothership being exploded, core stay helpless in the space and player have to rebuild the mothership to escape (there can be some kind of "Mothership lvl" and first one is very little, cheap and weak, but at least he can escape from the enemy). When evil AI see the core - he send a very large amount of units to take the control over the sun system, and send a special hacking unit to hack the core. After 10 minutes of hacking - core is exploding and player losing the game. Also every minute of hacking AI gaining AI-progress and getting a big AI-progress buff for destroying the core... If hacking was prevented by the player - AI have to start the hacking from the beginning, so... Since both sides send all their armies to the fight for the core - this combat can lasts very long time.

There can be a different core-hackers and only one of them is destroying the core after hacking, so AI can send multiple hackers to the player's core and hack the core multiple times and only then - destroy it (preferences based on number of players also).

Some of possible "core hackers":
AI-Progress hacker - producing a lot of AI-progress every minute of hacking, after 5 minutes self-destructs.
Fleet command hacker - after 5 minutes of hacking taking the control over the player's fleet (not turrets) for the next 5 minutes.
Defence system hacker - after 5 minutes of hacking taking the control over the player's defences (turrets and fortresses) for the next 10 minutes
Resource hacker - while hacking the core - all the resource-producing buildings is being controlled by the AI (allow him to create a large amount of units), after 10 minutes self-destructs.
Core destroyer hacker - after 10 minutes of hacking player's core is being exploded.

Also there can be some hacking preferences for AI types - one AI is prefer to chase the mothership and hack the core by AI-progress hacker, another one will try to destroy the core as soon as possible...

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 03:47:29 PM »
That seems too OP in my opinion. If you lose your Ark, you have 10 minutes to recover it? That is quite a long time and you could easily take it back unless the AI devotes tons of resources to defending the hack. If they did do that, then some people would probably near end game let their Arks be destroyed then lightning strike the AI homeworld while it is distracted. Or just take over now weakened planets then send a nuke in, then an army. Also why would the AI do those other hacks when it could just destroy you and win? The idea might work with some changes, not as much time taken, maybe the AI can have a unit pull your core way into their territory to make it hard to recover in time, etc. Though it would also be necessary to make an explanation of why it would be so strong.

Offline BlackNyasher

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 07:17:42 PM »
All the timing of hacking can be rebalanced, i not even saw the game alive to think about this deeper x3

All this timing of hacking can be set different for each difficulty level and AI type, and i was thinking about 5 minutes for core explosion, but then all the rest of the hackings will be pointless (then lets just think that AI need 5 minutes to explode the core and 2 minutes for all other hacks)... The reason to hack the core anyhow else than just explode it will appear when many players are playing together, when killing of 1 player will change not so much, but gaining of 100-200 additional AI progress or taking the control over the mining mashines of the player can change much more (and if players can't stop the AI - he can just hack the core for some profit and then explode it - he will spend just 2 more minutes)...

And will be more fun if you will lose not just by being exploded instantly - but by facing the new challenge you can't get through.

And this hacking-for-explosion speed can be increaced due to high Ai-Progress - in the late game AI will need just about 30-60 seconds to hack the core, so i think this is will be fair and players will not be able to exploit this too much (also there can be some penalties for playing without mothership, like being unable to build the turrets and ships, or gholems being turned off).

Offline Tridus

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 07:20:28 AM »
How do you actually lose in this situation? The only way I can see it happening is if you either get completely fleet wiped and lose your mothership (in which case you can't get it in a few minutes anyway), or you were too aggressive with your mothership and it got killed on an AI planet, in which case the game got a lot more forgiving because now you get a chance to recover that.

The simpler way to avoid a situation where one fast raider ship takes out your mothership and kills you is to make your mothership able to defend itself against ships like that. Translocation shots were a beautiful thing on Miitary Command Stations for just that purpose. This is overcomplicating the problem.

Offline WolfWhiteFire

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 01:18:49 PM »
I agree, though I would expect the Ark to actually be pretty strong even alone, considering how often it will be put into danger, maybe technology to upgrade it.

Offline Astilious

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 08:05:17 PM »
It likely wont matter how tough the arc is, unless the game works quite differently. Classic exo waves can kill the current home command station and all the forcefields you care to use faster than you can kill them with reasonable firepower. Even if there isn't something this powerful around on release of AI war 2 there quite possibly will be eventually.

In classic the home command is inevitably the weakest point in your empire and there is nothing you can do to fix it. I personally really dislike that the AI doesn't need to actually beat you to win, only assassinate one low hp building. I don't want to lose the game unless I'm actually beaten, at least on the planet with my home command. That requires that your home command can survive long enough that the AI actually needs to fight your defences. A few minutes of invincibility (even without any complex hacking mechanics) would do this nicely. After the invincibility the command station could be killed for (say) the next half hour.

Also this shouldn't cause large AI progress. On harder difficulties gaining 1-200 AI progress may as well be losing the game.

Its fine for AI raids to take out irreplacables, but making you instantly lose is a bit much.
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Offline BlackNyasher

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2016, 03:15:15 PM »
Yea, i pretty hate when this raider-starships ignoring your defences and just rush to your command stations and destroying them one by one alone because their shots ignoring the force-fields and they can even destroy your home station due to their extremely fast speed >=O

Offline bladeravinger

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Re: Mothership core ejection and core-hacking by AI
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 02:23:11 PM »
Yea, i pretty hate when this raider-starships ignoring your defences and just rush to your command stations and destroying them one by one alone because their shots ignoring the force-fields and they can even destroy your home station due to their extremely fast speed >=O

Defencive turrets nullify this if you keep there levels up, I have found turtle behaviour is  best when playing, hard defence slow offence
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