Author Topic: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types  (Read 934 times)

Offline TheVampire100

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Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« on: August 30, 2016, 05:16:10 PM »
Somethign that I wish for the sequel would be a counterpart for the player to the AI types. AI types change the playstyle of the AI, ti gives the Ai different bonuses or may change its entire behaviour.
The lore fo Ai War tells us that the player are previous human leaders (before the time of the AI) and tactical geniuses. They have been put in cryostasis after the AIs were developed since there was no use for them anymore. After it backlashed, they thawed them up, excused for their bevahiour before and pleaded for help.
I would like to see that we have different leaders to select with different properties. For example a leader could have been a powerful bomber pilot and therefor you get bonus damage for your bombers.

That's just a little idea that opped my mind, I would really like it in the game but if not that's no loss at all.

Offline x4000

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2016, 05:18:05 PM »
It's definitely a good idea, and the sort of thing that is low on programming complexity and high on ability to mod and so forth.  That makes it a prime candidate for a "yes" in my book.
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Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2016, 05:27:43 PM »
I see a potential link with the non-Human player. While I dislike the idea of not playing as Human (because all the asymmetry and lore around that), I like the idea of different openings. Choosing one unlockable ship is a start, but it sure can be more complex and interesting. And about the non-Human opening, I could see things like MF allied from the start: a Spire battalion, some friendly Roaming Enclaves, one Zenith Golem, some Resistance Fighters... Might require something for the AI to balance, or let the player put nasty plots.

Technically, my ideas sound like good-only Minor Factions (which might be a good idea). Eh, AI Types already sounds like plots to me. I bet something more smooth and unified will evens everything. (In the end, only the lore makes a difference... and the hostile/friendly distinction, of course.)
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Offline kasnavada

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 02:06:38 AM »
What is also needed is the ability to give any ship and any building at start via mod. To define what's available at start via modding. Leaders to give "overall bonus" would be a nice bonus touch.

That way someone can make a star wars/trek/babylon 5/whatever faction.

AI war is one of the very few space game with no starwartrek 5 factions.

Offline Captain Jack

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 03:10:51 AM »
It's definitely a good idea, and the sort of thing that is low on programming complexity and high on ability to mod and so forth.  That makes it a prime candidate for a "yes" in my book.
Also makes a good tier reward: name the leader.

And hey, we could do the same with minor factions. "Chris's Corsairs" or "Keith's Killer Angels" could show up to attack instead of the usual marauders.

Offline Steelpoint

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 03:26:25 AM »
I think Human factions would be better than Human leaders. The player is meant to be the leader.

I think allowing players to select a faction would be more thematic, since it would be more justifiable wondering why Faction 1st Strike Force Remnant has several high tier warships than wondering why Joe McDuck gets them.

I also think having actual factions would allow us to better draw from the lore. With people we would have to make most of them up, whereas in the lore for AI War, or even stretching to Bionic Dues, there are some possible faction choices to make.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 01:38:20 AM »
This is a good idea, I approve. More variability and choices for the player.
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Offline kasnavada

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2016, 02:05:51 AM »
Also, leaders could be "rewards" for the kickstarter.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2016, 02:45:15 AM »
While I'm thinking of it, that Human Leaders thing seems to go against the principle of merging plots, MF and all the "added stuff".

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. But I would prefer to conceptually see them as "Human Minor Factions".
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Offline Tridus

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2016, 08:18:16 AM »
It's definitely a good idea, and the sort of thing that is low on programming complexity and high on ability to mod and so forth.  That makes it a prime candidate for a "yes" in my book.
Also makes a good tier reward: name the leader.

And hey, we could do the same with minor factions. "Chris's Corsairs" or "Keith's Killer Angels" could show up to attack instead of the usual marauders.

Yep, exactly. If you're going to do a kickstarter, make a tier "help design a leader!". Open it up to 20 backers or whatever, so they can work with Chris to get themselves (or whoever they want) added to the game as a leader.

I'd pledge that tier for sure, then I'd make my leader the one who absolutely can't stand losing ships and is thus big on shields & protector ships. :D

Offline zharmad

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2016, 04:55:24 PM »
 Human leader with traits seem good, naming leaders is fine, but I'm fairly wary of allowing kickstarter backers to influence your own design flow, Chris. I've been following Path of Exile for a number of years, and the ratio of happy to unhappy designer tier backers isn't all that high. There's definitely a noticeable (not strong mind you,) correlation between happy supporters whose contributions are clearly over-powered, and the converse. That is, if you have to keep a strong control of balance over supporter contributions, then you're inevitably going to make some backers less happy.

 Taking on suggestions is one thing that Arcen does well (and a leader big on shields, chaffs, and flares is definitely an attractive option for many players), so try not to monetise the community involvement if you can avoid it.

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2016, 05:17:09 PM »
@zharmad : nice points.

1) You "could" reward-ize the leader and their background, but keep their bonus random. Force the backstory to remove any indication that "defense is his priority", for example.

OR

2) Another idea would be to limit heavily the types of leaders possible, like maybe 8 different categories, and force every backer to choose one of them. Again, stats would depend on the category, chosen, and only it's name would be taken from the backer's list. In effect, it "removes" all commanders to make only 8 commanders, but with a different name & backstory each time.

PS: whatever the case, allow the user to look up names of backers as he sees fit.


Offline Tridus

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2016, 12:29:17 PM »
Human leader with traits seem good, naming leaders is fine, but I'm fairly wary of allowing kickstarter backers to influence your own design flow, Chris. I've been following Path of Exile for a number of years, and the ratio of happy to unhappy designer tier backers isn't all that high. There's definitely a noticeable (not strong mind you,) correlation between happy supporters whose contributions are clearly over-powered, and the converse. That is, if you have to keep a strong control of balance over supporter contributions, then you're inevitably going to make some backers less happy.

 Taking on suggestions is one thing that Arcen does well (and a leader big on shields, chaffs, and flares is definitely an attractive option for many players), so try not to monetise the community involvement if you can avoid it.

I don't know how big a concern that is among this fandom, but it would be important to set expectations correctly up front. It's not "you get to design the leader and we put in whatever you say", but rather "you get to help us come up with the concept and we'll try to find a way to make it fit." Backstory and names tend to be less of a problem, but even there, Arcen still has to maintain editorial control on the final content.

A reward tier like that is nice because it gets both more money from people who want to pay more, and community involvement for ideas.

Offline zharmad

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Re: Human Leaders - The counterpart to AI Types
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2016, 01:05:43 PM »
I'm also fairly confident that amongst the existing fandom here, we should be able to manage our egos. If I had the spare money, I would consider assigning myself to be Neinzul high ambassador (begin with Neinzul triangle instead of human triangle, which become unlockable).

Kick-starter will open up rewards to everyone - so I feel Chris should prepare himself and the kickstarter website appropriately. It's not just Steam that has only one launch: many kick-started projects fail to obtain a second launch at release as well.