Author Topic: Fleet management  (Read 115 times)

Offline kasnavada

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Fleet management
« on: September 14, 2019, 01:50:04 AM »
Sooo... there.

I have 2 remarks here.

1) The fleets are a pain to select.
2) Fleet movement.
3) Fleet customization is random & weird.

Let's go in detail.

1) a) Fleet tab.
I found myself playing in "fleet" tab, as a whole. I select the fleet in the tab. It opens a pop-up. It does not select the fleet. Now I just use it to get the numbers of my fleets so I can select them with buttons, but it's annoying.

Could a single click select the fleet, a c-click place the pop-up ? And also for the "local" tab.

b) Galaxy view mode.
I click on my fleet to select it. Nothing happens. This should select my fleet.
That's especially annoying when trying to move around citadels & battlestation by the way, as you need to go to planet view, then select it, then back to galaxy view, then select the destination... instead of just left click to select and right click to move.

c) "Planet view mode & selection for split fleets". Starting point: I sent part of my fleet in another planet.

I click on one of my transport. This selects my transport. I double click. It selects my fleet. Mkay. Or does it ? No, it doesn't. It select my fleet... at my current location. All other ships are still lost in the other planet.
I click

The only way I have to move the entire fleet is to select the fleet via number selection and move it on the "galaxy screen view".

d) I click on one of the fleetships once, it selects the squad. Twice, all squads. thrice, the fleet. Haha... no it doesn't. Could it ? Please ?

2) a) Could we have an "movement option" so that the fleet transport automatically loads all of its ship, then moves to wherever you told it to, then unloads all ships when arriving at at destination point? Pretty please ? please please please ?

3) a) Fleet ships lines.
Ummmm. I don't get this design. At all. Swap = Bad. When clicking on list, we get a list... it's bad.  :'( I'm sorry. Maybe I come at a time where it's half implemented.
I like the idea that fleets have 5 slots. But the "swap" screen should just present each fleet as a box with 5 slots and allow to drag and drop ship lines from a fleet to another one. And this screen should show the level of the fleet, whether ship lines are upgraded by XP or not, and the selection hotkey for the fleet too.

b) Ship unlocks.
I like that the fleet unlocks some ship lines.
I don't like that when you unlock a (somewhat) new ship from an ARS, it merges into the current fleet lines if the fleet already had this ship, but still had a slot left. I would propose that it didn't merge and stayed a separate ship line, so you can reassign it later.
I don't like that you can't assign 2 of the same ship lines at the same ship. I think you should be able to do that. But it's especially strange considering the merging mechanic just above.

Also, when unlocking ships from an ARS, I think that selecting a fleet should tell the ARS "unlock ship line" button to create the ship line in the selected fleet. Moving fleets away when unlocking ships isn't intuitive. And, as far as we are here, I suggest that the "unlock ship line" button tells us what fleet it's adding the line to, and automatically selects a fleet which can accept the ship, if multiple fleets are present.

Maybe on this one I got an half implemented solution to test ?

c) Fleet naming. When howering the mouse on any ship, you get the fleet name. That's pretty good. Could we also have the hotkey number for selection ?

Anyway, that's it for now.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 01:52:12 AM by kasnavada »

Offline RocketAssistedPuffin

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2019, 11:20:59 AM »
1) a) Fleet tab.
I found myself playing in "fleet" tab, as a whole. I select the fleet in the tab. It opens a pop-up. It does not select the fleet. Now I just use it to get the numbers of my fleets so I can select them with buttons, but it's annoying.

Could a single click select the fleet, a c-click place the pop-up ? And also for the "local" tab.

Right Click the Fleet. That selects it.

b) Galaxy view mode.
I click on my fleet to select it. Nothing happens. This should select my fleet.
That's especially annoying when trying to move around citadels & battlestation by the way, as you need to go to planet view, then select it, then back to galaxy view, then select the destination... instead of just left click to select and right click to move.

I think Chris is intending to implement this. Seen others mention wanting it, and mention of some changes enabling this kind of thing in future.
Autistic, so apologies for any communication difficulties!

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2019, 12:09:38 PM »

Right Click the Fleet. That selects it.

Oh. Thanks. Then I suggest to change it to left clicks selects and c gives details,  please. It's important to keep interfaces consistent across screens.

Or right click everywhere. Whichever. Please?

Offline Asteroid

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2019, 07:48:23 PM »
A lot of good points here IMO.

Could a single click select the fleet, a c-click place the pop-up ? And also for the "local" tab.
Left-clicking selecting the fleet is what most people would expect I think. Except those used to right-clicking the sidebar icons in AI War 1. C-clicking however isn't a good idea for opening the edit panel: it functionality that's absolutely critical to the game, and nobody is going to find this shortcut, just like you missed "Right-click to center your view on the fleet centerpiece and select the entire fleet" in every fleet's tooltip. I think we'd need a little gear button next to each fleet button that you can click to edit the fleet, as well as right-click and/or double-click as a default shortcut that the gear button tells you about.

Quote
b) Galaxy view mode.
I click on my fleet to select it. Nothing happens. This should select my fleet.
That's especially annoying when trying to move around citadels & battlestation by the way, as you need to go to planet view, then select it, then back to galaxy view, then select the destination... instead of just left click to select and right click to move.
Already planned according to Chris. I think there must be technical obstacles that hinder the implementation.

Quote
c) "Planet view mode & selection for split fleets". Starting point: I sent part of my fleet in another planet.

I click on one of my transport. This selects my transport. I double click. It selects my fleet. Mkay. Or does it ? No, it doesn't. It select my fleet... at my current location. All other ships are still lost in the other planet.
I click
It actually selects your fleet on all planets  - double-click your flagship like this, and notice you can scrap all members on the fleet on every planet if you press DEL. The fact that it selects the fleet members but not the fleet is confusing indeed. But the way selection is presented now, if it selected the whole fleet you wouldn't see all ship types in the selection box, preventing you from refining your selection.

Quote
2) a) Could we have an "movement option" so that the fleet transport automatically loads all of its ship, then moves to wherever you told it to, then unloads all ships when arriving at at destination point?

I second this.

What I personally would like to be able to do is to select a bunch of units and/or whole fleets, press shift-L do queue a load command, shift-right-click a path through several systems on the galaxy map, then shift-right-click a position inside some system, and lastly press shift-U to queue an unload command after they go to their final destination.

I do find it very annoying that you have to be at the wormhole at the exact second the fleet(s) arrive to pause the game and give further orders, when you could queue all these actions in advance.

The downside with my idea is that you couldn't easily give orders to all members of the fleet in the current system without also giving movement orders to members of the fleet elsewhere.
Quote
3) a) Fleet ships lines.
Ummmm. I don't get this design. At all. Swap = Bad. When clicking on list, we get a list... it's bad.  :'( I'm sorry. Maybe I come at a time where it's half implemented.
I like the idea that fleets have 5 slots. But the "swap" screen should just present each fleet as a box with 5 slots and allow to drag and drop ship lines from a fleet to another one. And this screen should show the level of the fleet, whether ship lines are upgraded by XP or not, and the selection hotkey for the fleet too.

b) Ship unlocks.
I like that the fleet unlocks some ship lines.
I don't like that when you unlock a (somewhat) new ship from an ARS, it merges into the current fleet lines if the fleet already had this ship, but still had a slot left. I would propose that it didn't merge and stayed a separate ship line, so you can reassign it later.
I don't like that you can't assign 2 of the same ship lines at the same ship. I think you should be able to do that. But it's especially strange considering the merging mechanic just above.
I actually never realized you could merge fleet lines before you mentioned it. I was even sure that the game explicitly refused to add a ship line to a fleet that already has the same. I think the merging is rather good actually because it allows you to specialize your fleet further, and make it more powerful without spending a slot. But if you picked up a duplicate ship line and put it in another fleet, it would be nice if the game let you merge it later down the line through the swap dialog. (I guess un-merge it could be occasionally handy too, but I could deal with the hard choice.)

Your swap screen idea sounds good, but a good UI with drag and drop takes a lot of time to implement. Doubt we'll see this anytime soon.

Quote
Also, when unlocking ships from an ARS, I think that selecting a fleet should tell the ARS "unlock ship line" button to create the ship line in the selected fleet. Moving fleets away when unlocking ships isn't intuitive. And, as far as we are here, I suggest that the "unlock ship line" button tells us what fleet it's adding the line to, and automatically selects a fleet which can accept the ship, if multiple fleets are present.
The rule is that the hacking ship gets the fleet line which makes sense to me, but who will be hacking and getting the ships if you press Hack now could definitely be clearer. Picking the hacker instead of having it based on distance (which no part of the UI reminds you of) is a good idea.

Quote
c) Fleet naming. When howering the mouse on any ship, you get the fleet name. That's pretty good. Could we also have the hotkey number for selection ?
Good idea.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 07:52:50 PM by Asteroid »

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 01:01:26 AM »
I click
It actually selects your fleet on all planets  - double-click your flagship like this, and notice you can scrap all members on the fleet on every planet if you press DEL. The fact that it selects the fleet members but not the fleet is confusing indeed. But the way selection is presented now, if it selected the whole fleet you wouldn't see all ship types in the selection box, preventing you from refining your selection.

I tested this with moving and it moved only the ships on this planet.

I didn't test scraping.

Here is the clip of the behaviour.
https://clips.twitch.tv/EnergeticBitterCattleRlyTho

For more demonstrations :
https://www.twitch.tv/kasnavada

I move back the fleet by selecting it on the "main map" view. When I'm on the planet view, I'm only selecting the units on this planet, whether by double click or by fleet number. I expected all ships to go back when I moved back. The game does tell me I selected the fleet by double clicking... but that's not what happened.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 01:08:12 AM by kasnavada »

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 01:07:42 AM »
Quote
Also, when unlocking ships from an ARS, I think that selecting a fleet should tell the ARS "unlock ship line" button to create the ship line in the selected fleet. Moving fleets away when unlocking ships isn't intuitive. And, as far as we are here, I suggest that the "unlock ship line" button tells us what fleet it's adding the line to, and automatically selects a fleet which can accept the ship, if multiple fleets are present.
The rule is that the hacking ship gets the fleet line which makes sense to me, but who will be hacking and getting the ships if you press Hack now could definitely be clearer. Picking the hacker instead of having it based on distance (which no part of the UI reminds you of) is a good idea.

Oo. Thanks. That would be simpler than moving the fleet to a different planet ! But yes... I expected whichever fleet you currently selected to do the hacking, not some position based thing.

Offline Asteroid

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 12:45:08 PM »
I tested this with moving and it moved only the ships on this planet.

I didn't test scraping.

Here is the clip of the behaviour.
https://clips.twitch.tv/EnergeticBitterCattleRlyTho

For more demonstrations :
https://www.twitch.tv/kasnavada

I move back the fleet by selecting it on the "main map" view. When I'm on the planet view, I'm only selecting the units on this planet, whether by double click or by fleet number. I expected all ships to go back when I moved back. The game does tell me I selected the fleet by double clicking... but that's not what happened.

Double-clicking the flagship selects the fleet ships on all planets, but it doesn't select the fleet as an entity. Either way movement orders given on the planet view only ever apply to ships in the current system. Move to system and move to specific location are completely separate concepts. Not intuitive and a good point could be made to change it, but it does have the avantage that you can't actually move a part of the fleet you left on guard duty in another system.

EDIT: Would you mind editing your posts instead of double-posting? You're making it hard for us to reply to all your points, there's no multi-quote feature. (One of the reasons double-posting is generally considered bad forum etiquette.)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 04:10:29 PM by Asteroid »

Offline kasnavada

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 04:01:43 PM »
Actually, there is a multi-quote feature. ;)
Select what you want to quote, then click on the top right button => Quote (selected)

For some reason it takes 10 seconds to load on my computer though. :o

Offline Asteroid

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Re: Fleet management
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 07:21:02 PM »
Actually, there is a multi-quote feature. ;)
Select what you want to quote, then click on the top right button => Quote (selected)

For some reason it takes 10 seconds to load on my computer though. :o
Hah! Thanks for letting me know about this feature.