Author Topic: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines  (Read 1299 times)

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« on: September 15, 2016, 03:41:48 PM »
Have you ever wondered what it's like inside the studio?  I'm about to reveal portions of a email (ok, it's the whole email) about the birth of this particular new idea.  And it's totally not from inside the studio.  :D

Quote from: Cinth
Glitchy sub-routines

Most likely a product of poor programming, these sub-routines have an unpredictable outcome when triggered.


The AI has main components, Sub-Commanders (a nasty addition that is basically an upgraded command center with attitude and planetary characteristics), but nothing on the "this code is buggy so we'll comment it out except we forgot to comment it out" side.  These could be akin to minor factions of the AI except have some varied result when the player interacts with them.

These could be as weird as having homeworld styled defenses, accelerated troop productions, or even an evacuation order.

Cue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FPELc1wEvk

This is where experimental AI code that should have been deleted goes to die (a virus in containment).

Quote from: x4000
That's hilarious and awesome. :)  Should go... somewhere... so that I can sort that into the main document later. 

Quote from: Cinth
On the forum so that pain... errr... hilarity can be spread about.
I mean, how would you react if you flew into AI space and the first thing you noticed was ships streaming out of producers and bee lining to the nearest AI wormhole (combination glitches).  OMG wow errr... that's a lot of new threat is what comes to mind :D

Quote from: x4000
Yeah, things like that could be hilarious and awesome and provide all sorts of new challenges.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline zharmad

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,070
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2016, 04:25:14 PM »
Ah, hmm... I thought the Bionic Dues AIs were supposed to be stamped out after ten thousand years or so...?

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2016, 04:30:59 PM »
Ah, hmm... I thought the Bionic Dues AIs were supposed to be stamped out after ten thousand years or so...?

In an ever evolving program there are bound to be errors or corrupted data or really this could just be fun things that create interesting havoc on a few planets.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline skrutsch

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 41
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 12:29:07 AM »
Great idea, I'm definitely pro-havoc!

Offline Tridus

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,305
  • I'm going to do what I do best: lecture her!
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 07:41:09 AM »
New hacking ability - temporarily install a glitchy subroutine into the AI.

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 10:35:17 AM »
I'm glad you guys like the idea, I just need more "glitches".
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 10:46:50 AM »
::)

It kind of clash with this post, that I like very much:
https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,19102.0.html

And, as a whole, I don't see unpredictable results compatible with AI war-style high difficulty play. It would take a lot of care, for this stuff to be balanced enough, so fear of a bad result does not push players toward "don't use it", or "it's annoying" territory. Also, this balancing would probably also leave a lot of the fun ideas out of the idea itself.

As a side option by default desactivated, why not.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 10:49:54 AM by kasnavada »

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 10:55:43 AM »
Actually, this falls into the realm of the wild rolls that some mechanics had in Classic. 
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 12:09:10 PM »
Actually, this falls into the realm of the wild rolls that some mechanics had in Classic.

Ah ? Which ones ?
I don't remember rolls apart from the metal cache thingy.

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 12:10:24 PM »
Actually, this falls into the realm of the wild rolls that some mechanics had in Classic.

Ah ? Which ones ?
I don't remember rolls apart from the metal cache thingy.

I'm pretty sure the super-terminal had them.  Wild rolls weren't a surface mechanic.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 12:15:11 PM »
Actually, this falls into the realm of the wild rolls that some mechanics had in Classic.

Ah ? Which ones ?
I don't remember rolls apart from the metal cache thingy.

I'm pretty sure the super-terminal had them.  Wild rolls weren't a surface mechanic.

Haaa, the thing that evolved into hacking response random thingies counter-mechanism ? Indeed. With waves appearing on the next planet, and at random position, EMPs and so on. Never like those much, but they were needed as it was too easy to blockade the hacked planet.

Here they're for the laugh, rather than to counter exploitable mechanisms, so... personally, still same opinion. Make them "much randomier" (pretty sure it's not a word) and optional =).


PS: like Chess compared to : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightmare_Chess

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 12:30:13 PM »
Here, they are going to be something you can encounter, that's somewhat random, and not just "another AI planet". 
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 911
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 12:46:09 PM »
Here, they are going to be something you can encounter, that's somewhat random, and not just "another AI planet".

I don't have issues with the idea from Tridus above where you could install glitchy mechanisms, or if you had to blow-up voluntarily something in order to cause this behaviour. But as a standard set, I think of AI war as a rather serious game - and think those don't really fit in. If the AI do not follow its protocol, it's because its protocol is failing (like the "additional" mechanisms put in playing in 10/10 games) or hacking responses (initiated by the player, and should be a risk). Because sometimes the "base" answer was not enough, so "glitchy", or rather adaptability, was justified.


So... I'm trying to understand here. So, this idea is some kind of unavoidable "trap" mechanisms that would trigger to... presence, or some hidden unpredictable variable, with a random effect that could include raiding any planet, wildy increasing threat, and possibly other stuff ? Is it limited in scope, "easter egg style" and easter egg "effect" on the game ?


edit: missing part of some sentences = not being understood, as a whole.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 12:56:59 PM by kasnavada »

Offline Cinth

  • Core Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,527
  • Resident Zombie
Re: AI concepts: Glitchy sub-routines
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 01:16:23 PM »
Think more along the lines of an AI sub faction.  Only a handful of these would be seeded.  I'm sure the planet in question would be identifiable from the outside and the results could be anything from really bad to something that benefits the player.
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.